Slow FC4, perhaps swap is to blame

[John Degenstein]

Alright, to begin here are my system specs:
Athlon 64 3200+
512 MB PC2100 DDR
200 GB SATA
160 GB IDE
Nvidia GF4 4000 (128MB)

This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
me crazy.

I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
several times:
swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here

This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
my mobo so that the computer would boot.

So I guess my main question is: is the swap space in Linux messed up,
or is it simply a problem from Java???

Thanks in advance,
John Degenstein

[Daniel Buggie]

On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 12:21 -0600, John Degenstein wrote:

>  This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
>  and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
>  something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
>  blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
>  resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
>  computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
>  switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
>  incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
>  use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
>  kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
>  after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
>  all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
>  me crazy.
>  
>  I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
>  several times:
>  swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>  
>  This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
>  get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
>  to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
>  possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
>  rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
>  PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
>  my mobo so that the computer would boot. 
Swap performance could be impacted by how your swap partitions are set
up (for example, multiple swap partitions on the same physical disk with
equal priority could cause your drive to thrash). How do you have your
swap space set up?  Since you are using Logical Volume, please also
include what PV the swap space is on. Perhaps fine tuning your swap
space could at least delay the memory leak issues.

Beyond that, have you tried "swapon -a" after your swapoff command?  If
your intent was to clear the swap space by removing it from the system,
why not add it back in?


Daniel

[Robert F. Chapman]

This is just the opposite problem that I have.  When I first boot up
it seems that everything is slow. I click on the applications tab and it
can take 30 seconds before it shows up.  I start a desktop app and again
it will take 30-50 seconds before it comes up.  Once I have run a few
apps etc. and things are cached, then the problem seems to go away.
Until my memory fills up. 

Why is Gnome so unresponsive before things are cached. I'm running a
2GHz system with 512Megs of RAM, and 7200 rpm PATA 133 hard drive.

Robert
  
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 10:41 -0800, Daniel Buggie wrote:
>  On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 12:21 -0600, John Degenstein wrote:
>  
>  > This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
>  > and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
>  > something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
>  > blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
>  > resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
>  > computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
>  > switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
>  > incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
>  > use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
>  > kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
>  > after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
>  > all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
>  > me crazy.
>  > 
>  > I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
>  > several times:
>  > swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>  > 
>  > This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
>  > get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
>  > to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
>  > possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
>  > rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
>  > PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
>  > my mobo so that the computer would boot.
>  
>  Swap performance could be impacted by how your swap partitions are set
>  up (for example, multiple swap partitions on the same physical disk with
>  equal priority could cause your drive to thrash). How do you have your
>  swap space set up?  Since you are using Logical Volume, please also
>  include what PV the swap space is on. Perhaps fine tuning your swap
>  space could at least delay the memory leak issues.
>  
>  Beyond that, have you tried "swapon -a" after your swapoff command?  If
>  your intent was to clear the swap space by removing it from the system,
>  why not add it back in?
>  
>  
>  Daniel
>

[Bob Chiodini]

On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 12:21 -0600, John Degenstein wrote:
>  Alright, to begin here are my system specs:
>  Athlon 64 3200+
>  512 MB PC2100 DDR
>  200 GB SATA
>  160 GB IDE
>  Nvidia GF4 4000 (128MB)
>  
>  This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
>  and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
>  something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
>  blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
>  resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
>  computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
>  switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
>  incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
>  use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
>  kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
>  after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
>  all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
>  me crazy.
>  
>  I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
>  several times:
>  swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>  
>  This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
>  get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
>  to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
>  possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
>  rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
>  PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
>  my mobo so that the computer would boot.
>  
>  So I guess my main question is: is the swap space in Linux messed up,
>  or is it simply a problem from Java???
>  
>  Thanks in advance,
>  John Degenstein
>   
John,

What does top tell you about the swap and memory use.  vmstat might give
some insight as well.

I would suspect that some application has a memory leak.

Bob...

[Terry Horsnell]

[Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
> Alright, to begin here are my system specs:
> Athlon 64 3200+
> 512 MB PC2100 DDR
> 200 GB SATA
> 160 GB IDE
> Nvidia GF4 4000 (128MB)
>
> This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
> and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
> something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
> blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
> resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
> computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
> switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
> incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
> use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
> kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
> after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
> all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
> me crazy.
>
> I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
> several times:
> swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>
> This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
> get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
> to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
> possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
> rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
> PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
> my mobo so that the computer would boot.
>
> So I guess my main question is: is the swap space in Linux messed up,
> or is it simply a problem from Java???
>  
What do you see if you leave 'top' running with the display
sorted on the VIRT column? Does some application's VIRT size
grow and grow? Or perhaps look at the SHR column - is something
expanding a shared-memory area each time it runs perhaps?

Cheers,
Terry

> Thanks in advance,
> John Degenstein
>
> -- 
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list(a)redhat.com
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

[Boris Glawe]

John Degenstein wrote:

> Alright, to begin here are my system specs:
> Athlon 64 3200+
> 512 MB PC2100 DDR
> 200 GB SATA
> 160 GB IDE
> Nvidia GF4 4000 (128MB)
>   
>  
512 MB is ok, but not very much for a 64 Bit Machine. It's not the 
reason for the problem. Also the slower Memory (2100 instead of  3200) 
is not the reason.

> This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
> and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
> something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
> blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
> resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
> computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
> switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
> incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
> use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
> kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
> after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
> all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
> me crazy.
>
> I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
> several times:
> swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>   
>  
This makes things faster, because you force your machine to use the 
available phyical ram instead of the swap. Your "out of memory " error 
messages are a corollary though if the machine doesn't have any swap space.
Your problem is that some apps eat up all your memory. FC4 should have 
no problems running with 512 MB RAM and no swap.

You have to find the program, which eats up all the memory.

You can use the command top to find that out:
-    run the command 'top'
-    press 'F' (which allows you to choose the sort critieria)
-    Choose RES by pressing 'q'. (RES is the ammount of memory in MByte 
which processes really use.  )
-    press Enter which will bring you back to the process list. The list 
is now sorted by memory usage. See, which process uses all your memory.

I guess, that it's you X Server, which uses all the memory. In this case 
it would help if you simply logged out, which causes the X Server to 
terminate and to release the memory. With the next login your X-Server 
will require only a few MByte RAM.

> This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started
> to
> get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
> to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
> possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
> rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
> PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
> my mobo so that the computer would boot.
>
> So I guess my main question is: is the swap space in Linux messed up,
> or is it simply a problem from Java???
>
>   
>  
It's the problem of any one process, not necessarily java (though java 
is also a candidate for very high memory usage).

Report us, which application needs such big amounts of memory and we can 
go on in the search for a solution.

greets Boris

[John Degenstein]

On 2/23/06, Boris Glawe <boris(a)boris-glawe.de&gt; wrote:
>  John Degenstein wrote:
>
>  >Alright, to begin here are my system specs:
>  >Athlon 64 3200+
>  >512 MB PC2100 DDR
>  >200 GB SATA
>  >160 GB IDE
>  >Nvidia GF4 4000 (128MB)
>  >
>  >
>
>  512 MB is ok, but not very much for a 64 Bit Machine. It's not the
>  reason for the problem. Also the slower Memory (2100 instead of  3200)
>  is not the reason.
>
>  >This is a problem I have been trying to fix for several months now,
>  >and I am pretty sure it is the swap space on this computer has
>  >something to do with it.  When I first start up the computer it is
>  >blazing fast, and I have no problem filling 4 workspaces up with
>  >resource intensive programs.  But as the days and weeks wear on the
>  >computer gets progressively slower, to the point where simply
>  >switching between workspaces with only 3 or 4 programs open becomes
>  >incredibly slow.  The problem also seems to relate to programs that
>  >use Java, such as azureus and qnext, it seems to me that there is some
>  >kind of memory leak that builds up in the swap space over time.  Even
>  >after the swap space has been filled I attempt to clear it by closing
>  >all open programs, but this has no effect and it is beginning to drive
>  >me crazy.
>  >
>  >I did manage to find a command which I somehow got to work at least
>  >several times:
>  >swapoff -a /dev/logVol00/_something_here
>  >
>  >
>
>  This makes things faster, because you force your machine to use the
>  available phyical ram instead of the swap. Your "out of memory " error
>  messages are a corollary though if the machine doesn't have any swap
>  space.
>  Your problem is that some apps eat up all your memory. FC4 should have
>  no problems running with 512 MB RAM and no swap.
>
>  You have to find the program, which eats up all the memory.
>
>  You can use the command top to find that out:
>  -    run the command 'top'
>  -    press 'F' (which allows you to choose the sort critieria)
>  -    Choose RES by pressing 'q'. (RES is the ammount of memory in MByte
>  which processes really use.  )
>  -    press Enter which will bring you back to the process list. The list
>  is now sorted by memory usage. See, which process uses all your memory.
>
>  I guess, that it's you X Server, which uses all the memory. In this case
>  it would help if you simply logged out, which causes the X Server to
>  terminate and to release the memory. With the next login your X-Server
>  will require only a few MByte RAM.
>
>  >This command alleviated my problems immediately, but then I started to
>  >get errors about running out of memory from new programs I was trying
>  >to open so I enabled swap again with the command "swapon".  Another
>  >possible source of my problems is the fact I am running PC2100 DDR
>  >rather than the minimum that my motherboard supposedly supports,
>  >PC2700, because of this I had to underclock some of the components on
>  >my mobo so that the computer would boot.
>  >
>  >So I guess my main question is: is the swap space in Linux messed up,
>  >or is it simply a problem from Java???
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  It's the problem of any one process, not necessarily java (though java
>  is also a candidate for very high memory usage).
>
>  Report us, which application needs such big amounts of memory and we can
>  go on in the search for a solution.
>
>  greets Boris
>
>  --
>  fedora-list mailing list
>  fedora-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>  
Well my power went off for the first time in 2006, so my uptime was reset.
Right now I am running a lot of demanding processes to try and shorten the
amount of time it will take for my computer to begin slowing down again.

Daniel: Yes, I did do "swapon -a" and it worked, but the problem recurred,
and now I cannot get "swapoff -a" to work again.  I am beginning to think
that swapoff does solve my problem, but I dont think it clears the swap
space, so when I "swapon" the speed issues come back much faster than they
normally take to appear.

I had a few more ideas with regard to programs that could be hogging my
memory; gimp, the X server as suggested above, gaim, and firefox.

Ok here are a few more details for you guys.
# cat /proc/swaps
Filename                                Type            Size    Used
Priority/dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol01         partition       1015800
258652  -1

Output of swap for the programs that could be eating all the resources
 PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  SWAP COMMAND
 3791 picomp31  15   0  352m 206m 7328 S  0.0 41.6   0:16.01 146m gimp
 3809 picomp31  15   0  402m  60m  14m S 22.7 12.1   3:45.22 342m java
 2929 picomp31  15   0  147m  48m  12m S  0.0  9.8   1:54.49  99m
firefox-bin
 2692 root      16   0  224m  30m 6468 R  0.6  6.2   1:32.81 193m X
 2861 picomp31  16   0  189m  11m 5132 S  0.3  2.3   0:13.05 178m gaim
 3806 picomp31  18   0 53944  436  436 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00  52m azureus

At this point I am not sure what to make of this data, so I guess I will
just wait a few days until my computer begins to slow down heavily again.

Thanks again,
John Degenstein