I wonder if anyone might offer advice about the way forward with mail client choice to satisfy a set of needs?
I currently use Thunderbird as my mail client of choice for the following reasons: 1) It has both email support with a good address book facility, as well as caldav calendar support via the lightning extension. This will sync calendars with both google and yahoo calendars. 2) It has GPG encryption support via the enigmail extension 3) It is being developed at present, and I currently use Thunderbird 3.1b2 in Fedora even though the stock version is somewhat behind this nightly version.
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic. I don't need the GLODA or other fancy indexing systems, but the search bar within Thunderbird serves my needs perfectly well.
Now there appears to be a forthcoming problem in that rumour has it that enigmail will stop being developed beyond Thunderbird 3.2 so if I continue to update the mail client then at some point I will lose the ability to use encrypted mail within the mail client - and that is important to me, SMIME is available but I will still need to decrypt previous mails and I really do prefer GPG to SMIME anyway.
So the question is which other mail client has a good UI, will support encryption (GPG) within the client, and hopefully has local maildir format, calendar (caldav) support and good filter facilities as well as being able to cope well with multiple email accounts? This needs to be a client that looks like it will be supported as we move into the future of Fedora.
Anyone able to offer considered advice?
Thanks
On 3/13/2010 2:22 PM, mike cloaked wrote:
I wonder if anyone might offer advice about the way forward with mail client choice to satisfy a set of needs?
I currently use Thunderbird as my mail client of choice for the following reasons:
- It has both email support with a good address book facility, as
well as caldav calendar support via the lightning extension. This will sync calendars with both google and yahoo calendars. 2) It has GPG encryption support via the enigmail extension 3) It is being developed at present, and I currently use Thunderbird 3.1b2 in Fedora even though the stock version is somewhat behind this nightly version.
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic. I don't need the GLODA or other fancy indexing systems, but the search bar within Thunderbird serves my needs perfectly well.
Now there appears to be a forthcoming problem in that rumour has it that enigmail will stop being developed beyond Thunderbird 3.2 so if I continue to update the mail client then at some point I will lose the ability to use encrypted mail within the mail client - and that is important to me, SMIME is available but I will still need to decrypt previous mails and I really do prefer GPG to SMIME anyway.
So the question is which other mail client has a good UI, will support encryption (GPG) within the client, and hopefully has local maildir format, calendar (caldav) support and good filter facilities as well as being able to cope well with multiple email accounts? This needs to be a client that looks like it will be supported as we move into the future of Fedora.
Anyone able to offer considered advice?
Where did you get this rumor about Enigmail?
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 8:04 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone able to offer considered advice?
Where did you get this rumor about Enigmail?
http://www.mail-archive.com/enigmail@mozdev.org/msg09789.html
says: Officially, Patrick will not be supporting any Thunderbird Build beyond 3.1.x Lanikai; but, I am running Shredder 3.2a1 and have had no difficulty with the Lanikai Enigmail Nightly with this build. YMMV
On 3/13/2010 3:13 PM, mike cloaked wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 8:04 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone able to offer considered advice?
Where did you get this rumor about Enigmail?
http://www.mail-archive.com/enigmail@mozdev.org/msg09789.html
says: Officially, Patrick will not be supporting any Thunderbird Build beyond 3.1.x Lanikai; but, I am running Shredder 3.2a1 and have had no difficulty with the Lanikai Enigmail Nightly with this build. YMMV
Thanks for the link. But it leaves the question... Enigmail has never, to my knowledge, 'officially' supported alpha or beta builds of Thunderbird. I have always had to use one of the 'nightly' builds with them along with the Nightly Tester Tools extension.
Which makes me wonder if this is just the same situation with different version numbers.
On 03/13/2010 11:22 AM, mike cloaked wrote:
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic.
Thunderbird automatically supports mbox & maildir, providing that dovecot & sendmail (or postfix) are properly configured for maildir. I have exactly that and works great with Thunderbird.
FWIW, Dan
On 03/13/2010 02:22 PM, mike cloaked wrote:
I wonder if anyone might offer advice about the way forward with mail client choice to satisfy a set of needs?
I too use TB for similar reasons to you - our choices sadly are pretty limited. Basically the 2 UI's in play are kde and gnome so ... we have:
a) kmail. pros: basically works. drawbacks: Its fragile (kde, akrofarti, nimrod etc). Refuses to recognize that composing html is important.
b) evolution - probably the only real alternative. cons: clunky UI - prone to crashing a lot. pros: supports in encryption, calendars, maildir++.
c) a few scattered low key players.
d) TB. pros: generally works ok. cons: slow and built on ancient decaying software framework - should be written from ground up. gpg may not be supported. Devs are obsessed with strange choices (gloda). Ok so .. this is what we're trying to replace ;-) ;-)
e) None of the above - but what ?
On 03/13/2010 03:25 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote:
On 03/13/2010 11:22 AM, mike cloaked wrote:
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic.
Thunderbird automatically supports mbox & maildir, providing that dovecot & sendmail (or postfix) are properly configured for maildir. I have exactly that and works great with Thunderbird.
I think the OP meant local store is mbox only - obviously the mail client is indifferent to the imap server storage choice.
gene
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Daniel B. Thurman dant@cdkkt.com wrote:
On 03/13/2010 11:22 AM, mike cloaked wrote:
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic.
Thunderbird automatically supports mbox & maildir, providing that dovecot & sendmail (or postfix) are properly configured for maildir. I have exactly that and works great with Thunderbird.
With respect Dan I was referring to "local" storage - which cannot be maildir in Thunderbird - yes it certainly supports connection to a server such as dovecot but if you copy mail from that server to local storage then it stores the mail locally as mbox format.
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 8:24 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the link. But it leaves the question... Enigmail has never, to my knowledge, 'officially' supported alpha or beta builds of Thunderbird. I have always had to use one of the 'nightly' builds with them along with the Nightly Tester Tools extension.
Which makes me wonder if this is just the same situation with different version numbers.
On the question of support for alpha or betas I think you are perfectly correct but the link I sent implies that further support will be withdrawn altogether which also implies that newer released versions of TB will also not be supported for enigmail (presumably unless another developer takes over the work on that project?)
On 03/13/2010 12:25 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote:
On 03/13/2010 11:22 AM, mike cloaked wrote:
Even though the local storage is in mbox format which I dislike (I far prefer maildir), I don't need it since I run a local dovecot imap server on each machine and run filters to copy mail to the local imap store which then also has the advantage that mail is client agnostic.
Thunderbird automatically supports mbox & maildir, providing that dovecot & sendmail (or postfix) are properly configured for maildir. I have exactly that and works great with Thunderbird.
FWIW, Dan
I think the OP meant local store is mbox only - obviously the mail client is indifferent to the imap server storage choice. - gene
With respect Dan I was referring to "local" storage - which cannot be maildir in Thunderbird - yes it certainly supports connection to a server such as dovecot but if you copy mail from that server to local storage then it stores the mail locally as mbox format. - mike c
Ok, thanks for clarifying! Dan
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 20:41 +0000, mike cloaked wrote:
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 8:24 PM, David dgboles@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the link. But it leaves the question... Enigmail has never, to my knowledge, 'officially' supported alpha or beta builds of Thunderbird. I have always had to use one of the 'nightly' builds with them along with the Nightly Tester Tools extension.
Which makes me wonder if this is just the same situation with different version numbers.
On the question of support for alpha or betas I think you are perfectly correct but the link I sent implies that further support will be withdrawn altogether which also implies that newer released versions of TB will also not be supported for enigmail (presumably unless another developer takes over the work on that project?)
I would assume that if Enigmail is no longer available, something will appear to take its place. I can't believe the TB folks would simply drop support for PGP encryption. Maybe this is just wishful thinking ...
poc
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:30:19 -0430 Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I would assume that if Enigmail is no longer available, something will appear to take its place. I can't believe the TB folks would simply drop support for PGP encryption. Maybe this is just wishful thinking ...
I see claws-mail lists support for various kinds of pgp-ness, but I don't know enough to know how any of them compare with enigmail.
I like claws because I can refuse to turn on the html plugin and therefore never see html mail :-).
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:33 -0500, Mail Lists wrote:
b) evolution - probably the only real alternative. cons: clunky UI - prone to crashing a lot. pros: supports in encryption, calendars, maildir++.
I can't say that I've noticed it crashing a lot. Or even crashing at all, since about the Fedora 9 era.
I recall Claws, or Sylpheed-Claws, being a GUI client name that was bandied about a bit. But it's a long time since I went around trying out different clients. I've persevered with Evolution being the *least* *worst*, all things considered.
On 3/14/10, Tim ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au wrote:
I recall Claws, or Sylpheed-Claws, being a GUI client name that was bandied about a bit. But it's a long time since I went around trying out different clients. I've persevered with Evolution being the *least* *worst*, all things considered.
Isn't mutt supposed to be that? [1]:-)
Andras (who's given up on mail clients and gets by using gmail in basic html mode)
Footnote:
1. "All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." -- http://www.mutt.org/
On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 01:28 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:33 -0500, Mail Lists wrote:
b) evolution - probably the only real alternative. cons: clunky UI - prone to crashing a lot. pros: supports in encryption, calendars, maildir++.
I can't say that I've noticed it crashing a lot. Or even crashing at all, since about the Fedora 9 era.
I wish. Evo is my main MUA (and I only use it for mail). It does crash and hang a lot less than it used to but I couldn't in all honesty say it never happens. In fact the latest update just segfaulted twice in a couple of hours (evolution-2.28.3-1.fc12.x86_64).
The upcoming Big Change is to throw out all the Bonobo stuff, which promises sunlit uplands and jam tomorrow. Let's hope so.
poc
On Sun, 2010-03-14 at 11:03 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 01:28 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:33 -0500, Mail Lists wrote:
b) evolution - probably the only real alternative. cons: clunky UI - prone to crashing a lot. pros: supports in encryption, calendars, maildir++.
I can't say that I've noticed it crashing a lot. Or even crashing at all, since about the Fedora 9 era.
I wish. Evo is my main MUA (and I only use it for mail). It does crash and hang a lot less than it used to but I couldn't in all honesty say it never happens. In fact the latest update just segfaulted twice in a couple of hours (evolution-2.28.3-1.fc12.x86_64).
You must not use it with Exchange. The exchange OWA connector crashes every time I restart evolution. The MAPI connector is barely usable at this point--though it's improving slowly. And nothing about Evo is compatible with Exchange 2007 yet. And the whole thing does crash occasionally, just for kicks, it seems.
(I have to use Exchange for work, unforch...)
The upcoming Big Change is to throw out all the Bonobo stuff, which promises sunlit uplands and jam tomorrow. Let's hope so.
poc
On Sun, 2010-03-14 at 12:20 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Sun, 2010-03-14 at 11:03 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 01:28 +1030, Tim wrote:
On Sat, 2010-03-13 at 15:33 -0500, Mail Lists wrote:
b) evolution - probably the only real alternative. cons: clunky UI - prone to crashing a lot. pros: supports in encryption, calendars, maildir++.
I can't say that I've noticed it crashing a lot. Or even crashing at all, since about the Fedora 9 era.
I wish. Evo is my main MUA (and I only use it for mail). It does crash and hang a lot less than it used to but I couldn't in all honesty say it never happens. In fact the latest update just segfaulted twice in a couple of hours (evolution-2.28.3-1.fc12.x86_64).
You must not use it with Exchange. The exchange OWA connector crashes every time I restart evolution. The MAPI connector is barely usable at this point--though it's improving slowly. And nothing about Evo is compatible with Exchange 2007 yet. And the whole thing does crash occasionally, just for kicks, it seems.
Fortunately I don't have that problem. I don't use Exchange, have never used Exchange, and would in fact find it hard to think of anyone I know personally who uses Exchange. I realize not everyone is so lucky.
poc
Tim:
I can't say that I've noticed it crashing a lot. Or even crashing at all, since about the Fedora 9 era.
Patrick O'Callaghan:
I wish. Evo is my main MUA (and I only use it for mail). It does crash and hang a lot less than it used to but I couldn't in all honesty say it never happens. In fact the latest update just segfaulted twice in a couple of hours (evolution-2.28.3-1.fc12.x86_64).
I can't recall a crash for a very long time. But maybe that depends on what you're doing with it. I really only use it to access my local IMAP server to read mail, and respond. I don't use any of the special features, beyond the spell checker. And I don't leave it running all the time.
The upcoming Big Change is to throw out all the Bonobo stuff, which promises sunlit uplands and jam tomorrow. Let's hope so.
Here's hoping...
On 03/13/2010 11:00 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
I would assume that if Enigmail is no longer available, something will appear to take its place. I can't believe the TB folks would simply drop support for PGP encryption. Maybe this is just wishful thinking ...
BTW: You probably know this Patrick, but Enigmail is usually available in the Fedora repos. I would love to see PGP natively supported. I used to use Claws, but there are times when I want to receive and send html.
-
Andras Simon -
Dan Thurman -
David -
Genes MailLists -
Jerry Feldman -
Matthew Saltzman -
mike cloaked -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Tim -
Tom Horsley