4:43 p.m.
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
5:38 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgment.
How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
about not having what they want when they want it.
The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
"freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
problems within the Linux community.
Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
6:18 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:43 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
It's in Fedora updates-testing.
6:28 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
6:33 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:43 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship.
It did ship at the end of July. You seem to be confusing the KDE release
date with the Fedora release date.
I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
As has been said repeatedly on this list, you can install it from
updates-testing and help make it better. I've been using it for over two
weeks now with no significant problems (in fact I just checked and I
installed it on July 31st). I just did:
yum --enablerepo=updates-testing groupupdate KDE
Maybe others have seen some issues and these are holding it back from
updates, I really don't know, but as of now it's significantly better
than 4.0.
poc
6:34 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:28 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy
<linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>
> Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
> am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>
> I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgement.
>
> Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> LG
Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
4.0 is what comes with F9.
poc
6:37 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship.
It has.
I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Sucks for you.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this
is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done.
What does RedHat have to do with this?
As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
Interesting opinion, I can't say I understand it. I'd argue you have
done more damage. I'm willing to put together a few points if you're
interested.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop
as
demonstrated in F9.
Gnome actually is pretty nice, not that I would use it full time... or
by Linux desktop did you mean the K Desktop environment?
The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgment.
How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
about not having what they want when they want it.
Can any core member of the KDE SIG confirm/deny regret?
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
Has that helped make it get out of updates-testing and to updates any faster?
LG
Arthur
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
6:37 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:28 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy
<linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>
> Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
> am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>
> I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgement.
>
> Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> LG
Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
----
let it die...even with 4.1 (at least from what I've seen from
updates-testing), there's still feature regression which is the OP's
complaint - and it's valid.
some of us are willing to give KDE the benefit of the doubt and think
that it will ultimately be a better desktop manager but griping was
inevitable.
Craig
6:37 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:28 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> > ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> > for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
> >
> > Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> > by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
> > am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> > and the KDE team itself way, way back.
> >
> > I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> > demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > a huge lapse in judgement.
> >
> > Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> > LG
>
>
> Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
4.0 is what comes with F9.
F9 doesn't magically appear on ones machine. At least I had to
manually do the upgrade/update.
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
6:41 p.m.
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were
told KDE 4.1 would
> ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half
working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>
> Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding
edge, etc, but this is
> by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever
done. As far as I
> am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility
of Linux, Fedora
> and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>
> I am very disappointed with the current state of the
Linux desktop as
> demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to
ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgement.
>
> Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> LG
It's in Fedora updates-testing.
And it is on rawhide. I am actually surprised
that it has not made its way over here, but it should soon :)
--
Regards,
Antonio
6:45 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Craig White <craigwhite(a)azapple.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:28 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> > ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> > for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
> >
> > Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> > by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
> > am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> > and the KDE team itself way, way back.
> >
> > I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> > demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > a huge lapse in judgement.
> >
> > Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> > LG
>
>
> Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
----
let it die...even with 4.1 (at least from what I've seen from
updates-testing), there's still feature regression which is the OP's
complaint - and it's valid.
some of us are willing to give KDE the benefit of the doubt and think
that it will ultimately be a better desktop manager but griping was
inevitable.
Just seems to me that people should take responsibility for what they
install. It was never claimed that KDE4.0 would have more features and
be more stable than 3.5. At least not by anyone credible.
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
6:46 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan
<pocallaghan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:28 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
>> > ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0
interface
>> > for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>> >
>> > Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
>> > by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
>> > am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
>> > and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>> >
>> > I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
>> > demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
>> > a huge lapse in judgement.
>> >
>> > Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
>> > LG
>>
>>
>> Why did you update to KDE 4.0?
>
> 4.0 is what comes with F9.
F9 doesn't magically appear on ones machine. At least I had to
manually do the upgrade/update.
So perhaps you meant to ask why he upgraded to F9. Never mind.
poc
6:46 p.m.
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 22:43:58 linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
<snip>
You can get it from updates-testing, then you can help make it even better. A
fair few of us have helped finding some bugs to make it an even better
release. The more help finding bugs and getting them fixed the faster it would
be pushed to updates.
As it stands now it is VERY good indeed, but I would say that being very kde
biased :)
-Colin
--
Fedora 9 (Sulphur)
Registered Linux user number #342953
6:56 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 03:43:58PM -0600, linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
I disagree with this assessment of F9. I *have* had problems with
Kongqueror, but overall, F9 is working really well for me. So much so
that it has replaced both OpenBSD and FreeBSD as my main platform.
I *will* be happy when kde 4.1 is running on F9.
7:11 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:38 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > a huge lapse in judgment.
>
> How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> about not having what they want when they want it.
The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
"freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
problems within the Linux community.
Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
Well I consider myself a freeloader as well. And I do not fear your
"Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years" either. Nor do I
see any reason to bring it up since you are doing no better yourself.
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
7:38 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:43 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
Listen you need to relax there are several people working on KDE 4.1
but there has been some initial show stoppers right now that are being
worked through. Like it has been said before you are more than welcome
to use the updates-testing repo and install 4.1. If you do you will be
very happy with it I assure you. But to once a week launch this thread
showing only your ignorance does nothing to help the effort to push 4.1
out to users. Please be patient good things come to those who wait.
--
LostSon
http://lostsonsvault.org
7:42 p.m.
linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Actually, we pushed the big red button push to stable a few days ago at akademy, and then
one more/last showstopper bug reared it's ugly head (I think we actually got it fixed
today).
You know the drill (or should by now), it's available, and has-been, for quite some
time in updates-testing. If you choose not to take advantage of that, and you're
upset, well, your angst seems misplaced.
-- Rex
7:49 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 19:42 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
linuxguy wrote:
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Actually, we pushed the big red button push to stable a few days ago at akademy, and then
one more/last showstopper bug reared it's ugly head (I think we actually got it fixed
today).
You know the drill (or should by now), it's available, and has-been, for quite some
time in updates-testing. If you choose not to take advantage of that, and you're
upset, well, your angst seems misplaced.
----
weird Rex...your e-mail set reply to gmane instead of fedora-list
Anyway...I assume you got one of the free N810's and I am jealous (the
kind of thing I would love to have but am too cheap to purchase myself)
Craig
8:25 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 20:04 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
Craig White wrote:
> Anyway...I assume you got one of the free N810's and I am jealous (the
> kind of thing I would love to have but am too cheap to purchase myself)
I wish, sadly no, not so fortunate as having one of those in my hands. :)
----
http://dot.kde.org/1218580876/
;-(
Nokia is not stupid but I would have thought that they would have found
one for you.
Craig
8:37 p.m.
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 18:43:58 linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0
interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but
this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as
I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux,
Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9
showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
LG
why don't you just enable updates-testing?
or use kde-redhat repo!
--
Armin
1:04 a.m.
Arthur Pemberton <pemboa <at> gmail.com> writes:
How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
about not having what they want when they want it.
Can any core member of the KDE SIG confirm/deny regret?
No regrets here, we knew we had to upgrade to KDE 4 sooner or later, so why not
now? Fedora is a fast-moving distribution for early adopters. We also knew KDE
4.1 would hit F9 updates months before the F8 EOL, which is what's happening
now (it's already in updates-testing), so people unhappy with 4.0 can simply
stick with F8 until KDE 4.1 gets pushed out to stable. And if people are still
unhappy with 4.1, then they might well not become happy with any 4.x, and
should be looking for an alternative. We surely can't sit on 3.5.x forever, KDE
isn't going to support it forever. Trolltech already stopped supporting Qt 3
over a year ago!
As for what other distributions are doing: Kubuntu is dropping KDE 3 in their
next release (Intrepid Ibex, which will be out essentially at the same time as
Fedora 10), it's already dropped from their equivalent of Rawhide. So we aren't
the only ones moving to KDE 4 only, we just did it one version earlier because
we considered it a huge waste of resources to attempt supporting parallel
installation of KDE 3 and 4 for a single Fedora release only, when KDE 4.1 was
around the corner anyway.
Kevin Kofler
1:13 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 1:04 AM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
Arthur Pemberton <pemboa <at> gmail.com> writes:
> How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> about not having what they want when they want it.
> Can any core member of the KDE SIG confirm/deny regret?
No regrets here, we knew we had to upgrade to KDE 4 sooner or later, so why not
now? Fedora is a fast-moving distribution for early adopters. We also knew KDE
4.1 would hit F9 updates months before the F8 EOL, which is what's happening
now (it's already in updates-testing), so people unhappy with 4.0 can simply
stick with F8 until KDE 4.1 gets pushed out to stable. And if people are still
unhappy with 4.1, then they might well not become happy with any 4.x, and
should be looking for an alternative. We surely can't sit on 3.5.x forever, KDE
isn't going to support it forever. Trolltech already stopped supporting Qt 3
over a year ago!
Some people may not like to hear this, but FC7 with KDE 3.5 works just
fine for me on my desktop.
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
1:17 a.m.
linuxguy <linuxguy123 <at> gmail.com> writes:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
ship.
That's the release date from upstream KDE. We never claimed it was going to hit
F9 updates the same day! The estimates I have frequently given were:
* updates-testing: end of July / beginning of August - We hit that just fine.
* stable updates: around mid-August - We may be a few days late there
(depending on how you interpret mid-August), but it's because we have been
fixing bugs which could make 4.1 actually worse than 4.0 for some users.
Pushing an update which fixes some things for some users and breaks other
things for other users is not an option! The kernel maintainers don't push new
kernels to F9 the day they're released at kernel.org either, for the same
reason!
I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks.
If you didn't want 4.0, you should have stayed on F8 until 4.1 comes to F9. And
if you have been able to cope with it for 6 weeks, I don't see why one or two
weeks more or less would change anything.
Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
Don't worry, 4.1 is coming soon. But flaming us on the mailing lists won't make
it come any sooner! (Personally, it even makes me want to intentionally delay
it to make you suffer, I'm that kind of person. :-p But luckily for you, I want
to provide the best experience for users who _aren't_ posting flames like this
and we have no way to provide updates only for nice users. ;-) )
Kevin Kofler
3:36 a.m.
On Thursday 14 August 2008 00:18, Francis Earl wrote:
>
> Still upset about being stuck with KDE4.0,
> LG
It's in Fedora updates-testing.
and has been for at least 2 weeks. You have the choice of using that or
waiting until Rex can get it into the main repo including some bugfixes that
have come out since he put those packages out.
You might like to bear in mind that you pay nothing for any of this, and
no-one is obliged to jump to your command.
Anne
3:44 a.m.
2008/8/13 linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com>:
The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
"freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
problems within the Linux community.
You are behaving like one.
Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
I have noticed that most of these mailing lists were MORE civil places
to hang out BEFORE the massive influx of people who won't take the
time to understand that about which they complain, yet complain as
though they understand perfectly how it should be. I'd like to see
more adoption, but not at the expense of the strengths that made
"Linux" - the whole product / environment / community / whatever -
useful.
5:44 a.m.
The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
"freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
problems within the Linux community.
Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
"I don't want world domination if it means I have to deal with
more people like this" - Mike Wangsmo
Alan
6:30 a.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:38 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > a huge lapse in judgment.
>
> How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> about not having what they want when they want it.
The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
"freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
problems within the Linux community.
Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
- Gilboa
6:22 a.m.
On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:30 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:38 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > > a huge lapse in judgment.
> >
> > How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> > about not having what they want when they want it.
>
> The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
> "freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
> problems within the Linux community.
>
> Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
>
If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
"do nothing to help" people are the majority of computer users. They
don't expect to have to WORK on an operating system. They expect it to
"just work" for them.
You are lucky that I "bitch an moan". I'm really just the messenger for
the vast majority of potential Linux users out there. 99% of the other
people heard messages like "If the price of 10% adoption is..." from
Linux people like yourself and decided they didn't want to be insulted
and then chose not to be involved in the Linux community.
The Fedora and KDE communities shipped an operating system in which
basic functionality like drag and drop and Kget doesn't work. They
didn't clearly warn people about things like this. And you expect
people to not complain ?
I think its time the Fedora community took a long hard look at itself.
Linux IS ready for the desktop. Or at least it was with KDE 3.5.9.
Some of the Linux community, however, is not.
8:20 a.m.
linuxguy wrote:
The Fedora and KDE communities shipped an operating system in which
basic functionality like drag and drop and Kget doesn't work. They
didn't clearly warn people about things like this. And you expect
people to not complain ?
Constructive criticism is *always* welcome. Don't let anyone tell you
otherwise. Everyone should please try to frame future comments with that
in mind.
But, think a little about what you are suggesting, and how Fedora works,
with it's contributor culture. Packaging and testing KDE-4.0.x was/is a
*lot* of work, and, if I'm reading between the lines a little, you're
suggesting at some point during the beta/rc phase of F9, this should have
been reverted because of a few missing features? Rest assured, we did
consider it, with (loosely) defined release/blocker criteria too, but the
items you mention did not rise to satisfy those.
<soapbox>
As always (hopefully I'm not sounding like a broken record yet), the Fedora
KDE SIG is open and welcome to new ideas and help. If you're at all
interested in fedora/kde and it's direction and focus, please do not
hesitate to contribute in any way you can,
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE
I'm Rex, and I approve this message.
</soapbox>
p.s. I'm little surprised too, that some folks don't seem to consider that
Fedora is, in fact, still shipping and supporting a kde3 desktop. It's
called Fedora 8.
8:32 a.m.
linuxguy wrote:
On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:30 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
> of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
> market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
"do nothing to help" people are the majority of computer users. They
don't expect to have to WORK on an operating system. They expect it to
"just work" for them.
You are lucky that I "bitch an moan". I'm really just the messenger for
the vast majority of potential Linux users out there. 99% of the other
people heard messages like "If the price of 10% adoption is..." from
Linux people like yourself and decided they didn't want to be insulted
and then chose not to be involved in the Linux community.
The Fedora and KDE communities shipped an operating system in which
basic functionality like drag and drop and Kget doesn't work. They
didn't clearly warn people about things like this. And you expect
people to not complain ?
I think its time the Fedora community took a long hard look at itself.
Linux IS ready for the desktop. Or at least it was with KDE 3.5.9.
Some of the Linux community, however, is not.
One thing you seem to be missing is that Fedora is not aimed at new
users or users that do not want to tinker with things. If you want a
system that you can "just use" then you should be looking at another
distribution.
One of the best things about Linux is that you have choices. Part of
the choice is picking a distribution that meets your needs. Do not
expect all Linux distributions to be the same, or try to be all
things to all people. Fedora is a distribution that tries new
things. Sometimes it breaks things. If you are after a stable
distribution, and the installation being supported for a long time,
you are not going to like Fedora.
What your complaint sounds like is that Fedora is not providing you
with what you want. This is understandable. The goals of Fedora are
not your goals. But you are wrong to expect Fedora to change to
match your goals. You are better off finding a distribution that has
the goals you want. It is a mistake to assume that all distributions
have the same goals, or to expect them to.
Mikkel
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!
1:26 p.m.
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 6:22 AM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:30 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:38 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > > > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > > > a huge lapse in judgment.
> > >
> > > How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> > > about not having what they want when they want it.
> >
> > The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
> > "freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
> > problems within the Linux community.
> >
> > Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
> >
>
> If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
> of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
> market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
"do nothing to help" people are the majority of computer users.
I am pretty sure the majority of computer users pay. Paying is a lot of help.
They
don't expect to have to WORK on an operating system.
Why not, or don't you realize that paying for it is equivalent?
You can either pay, take it for free and help, or take it for free and
understand that beggars aren't' choosers.
They expect it to
"just work" for them.
And which operating system is that?
You are lucky that I "bitch an moan".
How about we hire someone to start beating you with a stick every time
you say something we say is stupid. Would you feel lucky?
I'm really just the messenger for
the vast majority of potential Linux users out there. 99% of the other
people heard messages like "If the price of 10% adoption is..." from
Linux people like yourself and decided they didn't want to be insulted
and then chose not to be involved in the Linux community.
Fuck em. Seriously, I speak for myself, and you can quote me on that.
Why would I want to encourage my own abusers?
The Fedora and KDE communities shipped an operating system in which
basic functionality like drag and drop and Kget doesn't work.
KDE doesn't ship operating systems. It would be at least less
annoying, and closer to being constructive if your complaints are
accurate.
Kget is by no means a critical utility, i've been using KDE for years
and have only tried it once. And I don' know what kind of drag and
drop your using that doesn't work.
They
didn't clearly warn people about things like this.
Being ignorant doesn't mean they didn't warn. There were, without
exaggeration, dozens of announcements, and articles before, during and
after the release.
And you expect
people to not complain ?
There is a difference between constructive complaints and bitching.
Everyone wants the former.
I think its time the Fedora community took a long hard look at
itself.
Linux IS ready for the desktop. Or at least it was with KDE 3.5.9.
Which has not magically disappeared into the ether. If you weren't
willing to deal with the issues, you should have stayed with KDE 3.5.
Souds like KDE isn't going to be ready for you till 4.5
Some of the Linux community, however, is not.
Agreed.
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
2:25 p.m.
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
>> of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
>> market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
> "do nothing to help" people are the majority of computer users.
I am pretty sure the majority of computer users pay. Paying is a lot of help.
They do pay, but to Microsoft and Apple.
> I'm really just the messenger for
> the vast majority of potential Linux users out there. 99% of the other
> people heard messages like "If the price of 10% adoption is..." from
> Linux people like yourself and decided they didn't want to be insulted
> and then chose not to be involved in the Linux community.
Fuck em. Seriously, I speak for myself, and you can quote me on that.
Why would I want to encourage my own abusers?
Because with free software, only a very small percentage of users will
be both motivated and able to improve it. That means you need to
encourage a very large user base to reach that small percentage that
will matter for the future.
> They
> didn't clearly warn people about things like this.
Being ignorant doesn't mean they didn't warn. There were, without
exaggeration, dozens of announcements, and articles before, during and
after the release.
Really? Is there something on the fedora project page or the usual
download locations saying not to use this release? Or something in the
installer?
Which has not magically disappeared into the ether. If you
weren't
willing to deal with the issues, you should have stayed with KDE 3.5.
Souds like KDE isn't going to be ready for you till 4.5
How would a potential new user know this before installing and wiping
out whatever they had that worked before? And having done that, how can
you expect them not to complain?
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
12:19 p.m.
Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler <at> chello.at> writes:
Don't worry, 4.1 is coming soon. But flaming us on the mailing
lists
won't make it come any sooner! (Personally, it even makes me want to
intentionally delay it to make you suffer, I'm that kind of person. :-p
But luckily for you, I want to provide the best experience for users who
_aren't_ posting flames like this and we have no way to provide updates
only for nice users.
Been watching this with a wry smile probably like many quiet Fedora users
who generally remain silent, try to work with the excellent facilities
that the developers create in response to positive feedback, and get to
have the best operating system and safe secure software available on the
planet!
The grumblers should remember the history of Linux and Fedora, and think
about how we have slowly gone from a totally MS dominated computer world
to one in which a very significant minority now use exclusively linux on
their machines... but it has been a long and far from easy road.
We have a superb and continually developing set of choices that we don't
have to pay for and occasionally policy decisions mean that there is a delay
before the latest and greatest components of our systems are fully working.
I was aware of the time needed before KDE4 became fully functional - and in
the meantime I am using Gnome but testing KDE in F9.... in a matter of
weeks the KDE4 system will be very functional, and will be further
developed and fine tuned.
Despite the flame baiting going on here I expect that the majority of KDE
users are out there being patient, with some testing and feeding back
useful information so that the developers can fix bugs that arise sooner
rather than later.... we owe it to the developers to help fix things
- it is a community effort, so for those of us that download and use
and who pay no money we should remember it is part of what we owe to help
the testing process if we are not capable of being a developer ourselves.
Complaining and making negative comments will not get things moving any
faster and just annoys the developers.
However I am quite sure that the developers and packagers do know that the
majority of users are being patient and not making a lot of noise - and
indeed are very appreciative of the efforts that are made with limited
resources in getting these fantastic new packages out as best they can and
in as timely a fashion as it is physically possible with the non-infinite
resource base....
Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how things move forward.
Of course anyone who really cannot wait for KDE4.1+ can always opt to pay
for MS products if they think that is a better option!
12:25 p.m.
Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how things
move forward.
I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not yet at a comfort
level, still missing the Digital Clock from KDE 3.5.X, but it is working better and it is
coming around.
Of course anyone who really cannot wait for KDE4.1+ can
always opt to pay
for MS products if they think that is a better option!
Nah, why pay for them, when you can get them for free^{1}.
--
{1} via bitorrent, cracked versions of windows. Still seems like the original and works
like the original, just is not the original, but it will work!
Regards,
Antonio
12:31 p.m.
> Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how
things
> move forward.
I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not yet at
a comfort level, still missing the Digital Clock from KDE
3.5.X, but it is working better and it is coming around.
I better clarify the comfort level part. Not as comfortable as I would be if using KDE
3.5.X because I cannot customize it like I did before. I cannot put a quicklaunch like I
did before with previous KDE. I can't get the old LCD clock that I liked very much
but it is not there :(
That is why I mean by comfort level.
It is very workable. Okular is excellent :) It(KDE 4.X) is coming around. Great work
KDE developers. I apologize ahead of time, if I sounded pessimistic in previous threads.
On F9, I use GNOME, but on rawhide, I am using KDE :) I am seeing the progress.
>
> Of course anyone who really cannot wait for KDE4.1+
can
> always opt to pay
> for MS products if they think that is a better option!
>
Nah, why pay for them, when you can get them for free^{1}.
>
>
> --
{1} via bitorrent, cracked versions of windows. Still
seems like the original and works like the original, just is
not the original, but it will work!
Regards,
Antonio
--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list(a)redhat.com
To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
1:27 p.m.
Mike wrote:
Of course anyone who really cannot wait for KDE4.1+ can always opt to pay
for MS products if they think that is a better option!
Or Apple, where there is at least some indication of an effort to make
sure all the parts work together before shipping. And it will run
pretty much all of your free software too.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell(a)gmail.com
1:29 p.m.
On Fri, 2008-08-15 at 05:22 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:30 +0300, Gilboa Davara wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:38 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > > > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > > > a huge lapse in judgment.
> > >
> > > How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> > > about not having what they want when they want it.
> >
> > The fact that you refer to common Linux users like myself as
> > "freeloaders who bitch" demonstrates a big part of this and other
> > problems within the Linux community.
> >
> > Keep it up. Linux adoption will stay at 1% for another 10 years.
> >
>
> If the price of 10% adoption rate is exponential increase in the number
> of bitch-and-moan-while-doing-nothing-to-help like the OP, I'll take 1%
> market share any time, any date. (But that's me...)
"do nothing to help" people are the majority of computer users. They
don't expect to have to WORK on an operating system. They expect it to
"just work" for them.
You are lucky that I "bitch an moan". I'm really just the messenger for
the vast majority of potential Linux users out there. 99% of the other
people heard messages like "If the price of 10% adoption is..." from
Linux people like yourself and decided they didn't want to be insulted
and then chose not to be involved in the Linux community.
The Fedora and KDE communities shipped an operating system in which
basic functionality like drag and drop and Kget doesn't work. They
didn't clearly warn people about things like this. And you expect
people to not complain ?
I think its time the Fedora community took a long hard look at itself.
Linux IS ready for the desktop. Or at least it was with KDE 3.5.9.
Some of the Linux community, however, is not.
If you do not understand the difference between constructive input, bug
reports and testing and "you owe me!!! / I want KDE 4.1/3.5.9 NOW!!!"
type of messages, I doubt that I can do anything to persuade
differently. (Beyond adding yet another name to my growing troll
filter).
Beyond that, "I'm" not "we"; and I greatly doubt that you
represent
anyone beside yourself. Your assumptions that you know what I/we/Fedora
wants/targets, and therefore we (???) are lucky to have you on-board,
coupled with your "you owe me/where's my" attitude, is simply amusing.
Oh, and having been a Windows developer for many years (and spent many
years in Windows developer ML's) I can only laugh at your
ready-for-the-desktop comment. But that's another issue all-together.
In the OSS world, those who do the work get to make the decisions.
You want KDE 3.5.9 on F9? Great, stop wasting our time and start
packaging.
- Gilboa
1:50 p.m.
On Saturday 16 August 2008 18:19:22 Mike wrote:
I was aware of the time needed before KDE4 became fully functional -
and in
the meantime I am using Gnome but testing KDE in F9.... in a matter of
weeks the KDE4 system will be very functional, and will be further
developed and fine tuned.
:-) Now how on earth did you know that? After all, we are constantly being
told that the problems were kept a dark secret :-)
Seriously, though, I would expect anyone with a ha'porth of gumption to do
some reading before installing anything. Clearly there are many who think
that that's too much effort.
Anne
1:53 p.m.
On Saturday 16 August 2008 18:25:48 Antonio Olivares wrote:
I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not yet at a
comfort
level, still missing the Digital Clock from KDE 3.5.X, but it is working
better and it is coming around.
I doubt if it is the same, but I'm pretty sure someone has done a digital
clock plasmoid.
Anne
1:58 p.m.
On Saturday 16 August 2008 18:31:25 Antonio Olivares wrote:
> > Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how
>
> things
>
> > move forward.
>
> I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not yet at
> a comfort level, still missing the Digital Clock from KDE
> 3.5.X, but it is working better and it is coming around.
I better clarify the comfort level part. Not as comfortable as I would be
if using KDE 3.5.X because I cannot customize it like I did before. I
cannot put a quicklaunch like I did before with previous KDE. I can't get
the old LCD clock that I liked very much but it is not there :( That is why
I mean by comfort level.
Most of the customisation is possible in 4.1, though sometimes it takes a
little lateral thinking to get it. For those that want it, for instance, it
is possible to define a folder view that points to Desktop, run it at full
screen, and add Trash and Home icons and anything else they want to feel at
home.
It is very workable. Okular is excellent :) It(KDE 4.X) is coming
around.
Great work KDE developers. I apologize ahead of time, if I sounded
pessimistic in previous threads. On F9, I use GNOME, but on rawhide, I am
using KDE :) I am seeing the progress.
I'm not running rawhide, but I first installed 4.0 from rawhide before F9 came
out. The speed at which it has improved has been, I think, impressive. If
Fedora had decided not to go with it in F9 there would have been howls of
anger that other distros had 4.x and Fedora doesn't. They cant win.
Anne
2:03 p.m.
--- On Sat, 8/16/08, Anne Wilson <cannewilson(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
From: Anne Wilson <cannewilson(a)googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: Where the h%^&^%$#! is KDE 4.1 ? Part II
To: olivares14031(a)yahoo.com, "For users of Fedora"
<fedora-list(a)redhat.com>
Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 11:53 AM
On Saturday 16 August 2008 18:25:48 Antonio Olivares wrote:
> I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not
yet at a comfort
> level, still missing the Digital Clock from KDE 3.5.X,
but it is working
> better and it is coming around.
I doubt if it is the same, but I'm pretty sure someone
has done a digital
clock plasmoid.
Anne
If you know of a plasmoid with a digital clock that matches/resembles the old LCD clock of
KDE 3.5.X, I would be honored!:) That was one of the reasons of liking KDE, this new
clock looks like the GNOME clock, which I am used to also, but if I could just have the
old clock, I'd be very grateful and thankful!
Regards,
Antonio
10:25 p.m.
Antonio Olivares wrote:
> Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how things
> move forward.
I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not yet at a comfort level, still
missing the Digital Clock from KDE 3.5.X, but it is working better and it is coming
around.
> Of course anyone who really cannot wait for KDE4.1+ can
> always opt to pay
> for MS products if they think that is a better option!
>
Nah, why pay for them, when you can get them for free^{1}.
>
> --
{1} via bitorrent, cracked versions of windows. Still seems like the original and works
like the original, just is not the original, but it will work!
Cracked versions can include software you wouldn't want running on your
network.
-Max
10:30 p.m.
--- On Sat, 8/16/08, max <maximilianbianco(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: max <maximilianbianco(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where the h%^&^%$#! is KDE 4.1 ? Part II
To: olivares14031(a)yahoo.com, "For users of Fedora"
<fedora-list(a)redhat.com>
Date: Saturday, August 16, 2008, 8:25 PM
Antonio Olivares wrote:
>> Keep it up guys - I am one who does appreciate how
things
>> move forward.
> I second your comment :) It is becoming better, not
yet at a comfort level, still missing the Digital Clock from
KDE 3.5.X, but it is working better and it is coming around.
>> Of course anyone who really cannot wait for
KDE4.1+ can
>> always opt to pay
>> for MS products if they think that is a better
option!
>>
> Nah, why pay for them, when you can get them for
free^{1}.
>>
>> --
>
> {1} via bitorrent, cracked versions of windows. Still
seems like the original and works like the original, just is
not the original, but it will work!
>
Cracked versions can include software you wouldn't want
running on your
network.
-Max
What software is that?
Is it from Microsoft that checks if your version of Windows is not legal?
Can you share what you know.
I have some friends that run these kinds of windows. This way I can warn them to move
over to Linux with convincing arguments :)
Regards,
Antonio
12:09 a.m.
Max:
> Cracked versions can include software you wouldn't want
> running on your network.
And never mind just plain broken software...
Antonio Olivares:
What software is that?
Trojans, viruses, and whatnot? You don't seriously expect us to believe
that you weren't aware of that possibility?
Is it from Microsoft that checks if your version of Windows is not
legal?
Can you share what you know.
I have some friends that run these kinds of windows. This way I can
warn them to move over to Linux with convincing arguments :)
If some hacker has stolen some software, it's obvious that they have no
regard for other's rights, so why should they have any regard for whom
they pass the stolen software on to?
Though it's not unknown for original software to contain nasty
surprises. Quite apart from the shovelware stuffed onto some OEM
systems, there's been cases of compromised install discs. And my brand
new Asus laptop came complete with a trojan.
Looking at it, and the reports, the cheapskates cracked WinRar rather
than pay for it, included the cracked version of WinRar on the install,
as well as the trojaned tool that they used to crack it. Then, to ice
the cake, they also included some NDA stuff from Microsoft to OEMs.
;-)
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.
9:50 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:43 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1
would
ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done. As far as I
am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
and the KDE team itself way, way back.
I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
a huge lapse in judgement.
I've got vanilla KDE 3.5.4 on my new CentOS install, rock solid, got all
the multimedia libs I could want, so far nothing breaks, it works like I
want. I also installed Kubuntu. I have to be careful not to apt-get any
KDE package that smells like ver.4 just to make sure that doesn't get
drug into my system. Kubuntu does get under my nerves without a root
login to a root desktop. But, it IS slick. Ric
10:02 p.m.
--- On Mon, 8/18/08, Ric Moore <wayward4now(a)gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ric Moore <wayward4now(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where the h%^&^%$#! is KDE 4.1 ? Part II
To: "For users of Fedora" <fedora-list(a)redhat.com>
Date: Monday, August 18, 2008, 7:50 PM
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 15:43 -0600, linuxguy wrote:
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were
told KDE 4.1 would
> ship. I've been stuck with this crappy, half
working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>
> Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding
edge, etc, but this is
> by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever
done. As far as I
> am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility
of Linux, Fedora
> and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>
> I am very disappointed with the current state of the
Linux desktop as
> demonstrated in F9. The people that allowed KDE4.0 to
ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgement.
I've got vanilla KDE 3.5.4 on my new CentOS install,
rock solid, got all
the multimedia libs I could want, so far nothing breaks, it
works like I
want. I also installed Kubuntu. I have to be careful not to
apt-get any
KDE package that smells like ver.4 just to make sure that
doesn't get
drug into my system. Kubuntu does get under my nerves
without a root
login to a root desktop. But, it IS slick. Ric
--
you can get a root password on Kubuntu as well if you hate sudo :)
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/enable-and-disable-ubuntu-root-password.html
$ sudo passwd root
One of my students told me that after I told him that I hated sudo :), he told me you can
run like you in your beloved Fedora. It does not have to be sudo ?????
<humor>
sudo in Spanish means "I sweat alot" :(
</humor>
Regards,
Antonio
10:29 p.m.
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy
<linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> ship.
It has.
> I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
Sucks for you.
> Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done.
What does RedHat have to do with this?
> As far as I
> am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> and the KDE team itself way, way back.
Interesting opinion, I can't say I understand it. I'd argue you have
done more damage. I'm willing to put together a few points if you're
interested.
> I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> demonstrated in F9.
Gnome actually is pretty nice, not that I would use it full time... or
by Linux desktop did you mean the K Desktop environment?
> The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> a huge lapse in judgment.
How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
about not having what they want when they want it.
You STILL labeling people again??
Linuxguy, you also could stand to self-examine your verbiage before you
hit send. I usually put my really good rants into Drafts, and wait a day
or so before I hit send. Some were Grade-A Doseys too. Scorched everyone
and their Dogs. I deleted 'em all too, after further examination by the
light of a new day. <grins hugely> Ric
1:09 a.m.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 18:37 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 4:43 PM, linuxguy <linuxguy123(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > Its now 2 weeks past the end of July, when we were told KDE 4.1 would
> > ship.
>
> It has.
>
> > I've been stuck with this crappy, half working KDE 4.0 interface
> > for 6 weeks. You could say I'm a bit miffed.
>
> Sucks for you.
>
> > Say whatever you want about Fedora being bleeding edge, etc, but this is
> > by far the worst release Fedora and Redhat has ever done.
>
> What does RedHat have to do with this?
>
> > As far as I
> > am concerned, the KDE team has knocked the credibility of Linux, Fedora
> > and the KDE team itself way, way back.
>
> Interesting opinion, I can't say I understand it. I'd argue you have
> done more damage. I'm willing to put together a few points if you're
> interested.
>
> > I am very disappointed with the current state of the Linux desktop as
> > demonstrated in F9.
>
> Gnome actually is pretty nice, not that I would use it full time... or
> by Linux desktop did you mean the K Desktop environment?
>
> > The people that allowed KDE4.0 to ship in F9 showed
> > a huge lapse in judgment.
>
> How so? I think they underestimated how many freeloaders would bitch
> about not having what they want when they want it.
You STILL labeling people again??
Yes, why do you ask?
--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )
5:09 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 20:02 -0700, Antonio Olivares wrote:
you can get a root password on Kubuntu as well if you hate sudo :)
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/enable-and-disable-ubuntu-root-password.html
$ sudo passwd root
One of my students told me that after I told him that I hated sudo :), he told me you can
run like you in your beloved Fedora. It does not have to be sudo ?????
I already got that done. I mean having a real root session at login.
During my multiuser days, 'users' could not install programs, configure
email, etc. 'root' did that by design and that happens to be what I'm
used to, security-wise. A 'user' as 'almost root' is somewhat
disconcerting. Ric
5:12 p.m.
On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 01:09 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Ric Moore
<wayward4now(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> You STILL labeling people again??
Yes, why do you ask?
I had hoped that you might amend that habit. There's still hope, if
enough people call you on it. Ric
2:42 a.m.
On Tuesday 19 August 2008 23:09:48 Ric Moore wrote:
On Mon, 2008-08-18 at 20:02 -0700, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> you can get a root password on Kubuntu as well if you hate sudo :)
>
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/enable-and-disable-ubuntu-root-password.html
>
> $ sudo passwd root
>
> One of my students told me that after I told him that I hated sudo :), he
> told me you can run like you in your beloved Fedora. It does not have to
> be sudo ?????
I already got that done. I mean having a real root session at login.
During my multiuser days, 'users' could not install programs, configure
email, etc. 'root' did that by design and that happens to be what I'm
used to, security-wise. A 'user' as 'almost root' is somewhat
disconcerting. Ric
On the EeePC (xandros, deb based) I did set up root, but still some things
can only be done with sudo :-( Maybe it is fixable, but I find it very
annoying.
Anne
5728
days inactive
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53 comments
22 participants
participants (22)
-
Alan Cox -
Anne Wilson -
Antonio Olivares -
Armin -
Arthur Pemberton -
Bill Crawford -
Colin J Thomson -
Craig White -
Dave Feustel -
Francis Earl -
Gilboa Davara -
Kevin Kofler -
Les Mikesell -
linux guy -
lostson -
max -
mike cloaked -
Mikkel -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rex Dieter -
Ric Moore -
Tim