Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs

[taharka]

Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs

By Stan Beer

Monday, 26 February 2007

PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will
result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with
pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has
indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.

Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/

taharka

Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.

[Philip Walden]

taharka wrote:
>  Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
>
>  By Stan Beer
>
>  Monday, 26 February 2007
>
>  PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will
>  result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with
>  pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has
>  indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
>
>  Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
>     
I wonder if you "waste" much purchase money if you immediately overlay

Fedora on one.

[taharka]

On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 08:42 -0800, Philip Walden wrote:
>  taharka wrote:
>  > Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
>  >
>  > By Stan Beer
>  >
>  > Monday, 26 February 2007
>  >
>  > PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will
>  > result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with
>  > pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has
>  > indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
>  >
>  > Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
>  >   
>  I wonder if you "waste" much purchase money if you immediately overlay 
>  Fedora on one. 
I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on
a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe
wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The
article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.

taharka

Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.

[Jack Wallen]

On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:

>  I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid
> Fedora on
>  a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe
>  wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The
>  article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
>   
from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?

>  taharka
>  
>  Lexington, Kentucky U.S.A.
>   
-- 
Jack Wallen, Jr. www.monkeypantz.net
"You're never more than ten feet away from a transvestite."
Lola - Kinky Boots

[Fedora] Re: Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs

[Ashley M. Kirchner]

jack wallen wrote:
>  from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
>     
    It's their way of pushing Vista.  That'd be my guess.

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
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  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:[e-mail]>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
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  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.

[Fedora] Re: Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs

[John Aldrich]

Quoting "Ashley M. Kirchner" <ashley(a)pcraft.com&gt;:

>  jack wallen wrote:
>  > from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  > approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  > quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
>  >
>      It's their way of pushing Vista.  That'd be my guess.
>  
Probably Microsoft is subsidizing new installations of Vista. Also, it costs
Dell money to get their installers "certified" and build new Ghost (or
whatever) images of the linux O/S. Sure they have to do that with Vista, but
since most of their installs are Vista, it's a matter of a few pennies per
machine, not a few dollars per machine. Simply a matter of scale.

[Alan Cox]

>  from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain? 
Well one guess is to assume they don't actually want that Linux business.
That explains the distro choice, the pricing and the like. The other is
that they intend to offer some level of support on the system and that
does have a cost to them because they need staff who can resolve hardware
bugs without windows (eg for home users they need to know how to say "try
rebooting" and hang the phone up in Linux too)

I would much rather see them sell a box with no OS beyond a bootable
diagnostics image (eg freedos) that can just verify the hardware is ok
and tell the phone monkeys when/what needs repair if anything.

Alan

[Dan Hensley]

On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:
>  On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:
>  
>  > I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on
>  > a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe
>  > wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The
>  > article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
>  > 
>  from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain? 
It's probably not near as sinister as others seem to think.

It's probably a simple matter of volume.  They will still sell far more
Vista machines than Linux, and there is a fixed cost to pick the distro,
select what needs to be installed, brand it, provide some customer
support, etc., etc.  Divide that by the number of machines they expect
to sell, and that may be where the additional cost comes from.

Dan

[Philip Walden]

jack wallen wrote:
>  On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:02 -0500, taharka wrote:
>
>    
> > I'm sure you'll waste some, just as you would if you overlaid Fedora on
> > a box that came with Windows preinstalled. How much, who knows? Maybe
> > wait to see if/when Fedora/Ubuntu climb aboard, then compare prices? The
> > article states, they're the next distributions for consideration.
> >
> >     
>  from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
>     
My guess is that they still have the OEM deal with MS that they pay a 
fee for *every* shipment regardless of what is actually shipped. So your 
bright new shiny Dell Linux box includes the cost of a Windows OS even 
when you don't get one.

[John Yanosko]

On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:

>  from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
>   
Dell gets money from AOL and the proprietary crippleware vendors on the
Windows platform.  But beyond than that, price is a function of demand,
not cost.  Dell will charge whatever you will pay.

-- 
John Yanosko

[Wade Hampton]

When Dell first shipped Linux on servers, it was much cheaper than
Windows (hundreds of $).  Later, they raised the price for a server
with RHEL to nearly the same and sometimes more than a Windows-based
server.  But you have been able to purchase Linux on Dell servers for
a very long time (it's even supported).  I am glad they are finally
planning to offer Linux for desktops.  I hope they also offer dual
boot machines.  For example on one project at work we needed dual boot
machines but VA would ship only Linux so we purchased less of their
machines and purchased Windows elsewhere (lost revenue opportunity for
VA).

One observation and I hope Red Hat is reading this:  Before RHL became
Fedora, Dell would have most likely used RHL as they already had
agreements with Red Hat for servers.  Notice that the first Linux
option will most likely be SuSE and that Fedora is mentioned as a
possible later alternative, but no mention (so far) of Red Hat.  5
years ago, Red Hat WAS Linux to many, especially PHBs.  This IS market
erosion.

I think the announcements by ESR further reflect this erosion in
mindshare and low-end market penetration by Red Hat.  Maybe the OLPC
effort and new efforts on the part of the Fedora community will
reverse this trend but it may be too late.

Cheers,
--
Wade Hampton

On 2/26/07, John Yanosko <johgn(a)omsig.net&gt; wrote:
>  On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 12:56 -0500, jack wallen wrote:
>
>  > from what i understand, the same machine loaded with linux will cost
>  > approximately $53.00 USD more than the same machine with Vista. i can't
>  > quite figure that one out. anyone care to explain?
>  >
>  Dell gets money from AOL and the proprietary crippleware vendors on the
>  Windows platform.  But beyond than that, price is a function of demand,
>  not cost.  Dell will charge whatever you will pay.
>
>  --
>  John Yanosko
>
>  --
>  fedora-list mailing list
>  fedora-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

[Bruno Wolff III]

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 08:23:43 -0500,
  Wade Hampton <wadehamptoniv(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  One observation and I hope Red Hat is reading this:  Before RHL became
>  Fedora, Dell would have most likely used RHL as they already had
>  agreements with Red Hat for servers.  Notice that the first Linux
>  option will most likely be SuSE and that Fedora is mentioned as a
>  possible later alternative, but no mention (so far) of Red Hat.  5
>  years ago, Red Hat WAS Linux to many, especially PHBs.  This IS market
>  erosion. 
A few years ago they would have been selling the linux boxes to a different
type of customer than they may be looking at today. Fedora wouldn't make
much sense. They would be better off putting RHEL on them rather than Fedora
if they are going to support them.

>  I think the announcements by ESR further reflect this erosion in
>  mindshare and low-end market penetration by Red Hat.  Maybe the OLPC
>  effort and new efforts on the part of the Fedora community will
>  reverse this trend but it may be too late. 
I am not sure that the mind share for Fedora has really dropped on the low end.
A few years ago people buoght the boxed sets because downloading images and
CD blanks were more expensive. There is more likely a lot more people using
Fedora now than there were people using pre-Fedora versions of RH. They just
get the software a different way now.

It may be that other distros have grown faster than Fedora for desktop use
by "normal" people. This may or may not be a problem for Fedora.

The whole Dell thing doesn't make much difference to me. I buy the computers
I use in parts or acquire hand me downs and I won't be buying a machine from
Dell. I certainly wouldn't use any preinstalled OS of theirs, Linux or not.
I trust Redhat a lot more than Dell, not to include spyware type applications
on the system or misuse information obtained when getting updates from their
servers.

[Andy Green]

taharka wrote:
>  Dell says all aboard for Linux PCs
>  
>  By Stan Beer
>  
>  Monday, 26 February 2007
>  
>  PC maker Dell has announced that it has commenced a program that will
>  result in the sale and distribution of a range of computers with
>  pre-installed Linux distributions instead of Microsoft Windows. Dell has
>  indicated that Novell's Suse Linux will be first cab off the rank.
>  
>  Full article at; http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/ 
Controlling the debate is a wonderful thing.  Dell cherrypicked what to 
respond to, did not link to the actual site either on the Press Release 
or the article.

http://dellideastorm.com is the actual site, where this is currently #6:

''No OS Preloaded

submitted by agreer Feb 17

I have a XP Pro retail copy, will soon buy retail vista, I also like 
Linux: Make WINDOWS-FREE, and OS-Free an option for more than just 
expensive business lines...let me get that cheap-o $500 dimension 
without Windows...please! ''

That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™ Business" don't want to

give any oxygen to.  And why would any news outlet rock the boat when 
their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars.

-Andy

[William Anderson]

Andy Green wrote:
>  [snip]
>  
>  Controlling the debate is a wonderful thing.  Dell cherrypicked what to
>  respond to, did not link to the actual site either on the Press Release
>  or the article.
>  
>  http://dellideastorm.com is the actual site, where this is currently #6:
>  
>  ''No OS Preloaded
>  
>  submitted by agreer Feb 17
>  
>  I have a XP Pro retail copy, will soon buy retail vista, I also like
>  Linux: Make WINDOWS-FREE, and OS-Free an option for more than just
>  expensive business lines...let me get that cheap-o $500 dimension
>  without Windows...please! '' 
Yeah, and around the 2,070 mark, we have:
http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63527/FREE_TV_advertising_on_ne...

Not exactly awe-inspiring stuff, so it's not surprising Dell cherry picked.

>  That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™
> Business" don't want to
>  give any oxygen to.  And why would any news outlet rock the boat when
>  their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars. 
Dell are required to "recommend" XP and Vista by virtue of the OEM
agreements they sign with Microsoft.  It doesn't preclude them from
preinstalling other operating systems on their products.  And news is
news; a good news outlet won't give a damn where their advertising
dollars are coming from.

-- 
William Anderson, Systems Administrator
Concept Systems Ltd. | [phone]
wanderso(a)csl.co.uk   | http://www.csl.co.uk/

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[Andy Green]

William Anderson wrote:

>  Yeah, and around the 2,070 mark, we have:
>
> http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63527/FREE_TV_advertising_on_ne...
>  
>  Not exactly awe-inspiring stuff, so it's not surprising Dell cherry picked. 
That means nothing, since the Microsoft free one was up at 33,000 (the 
spam is 6% of that) when I looked.  Also they took time to trumpet about 
being Carbon Neutral, or at least to drop the phrase in there, and that 
is much further down.

> > That's one idea Dell "recommends Windows Vista™
> Business" don't want to
> > give any oxygen to.  And why would any news outlet rock the boat when
> > their boat floats on Dell and Microsoft advertising dollars.
>  
>  Dell are required to "recommend" XP and Vista by virtue of the OEM 
They want Microsoft's money, so they agree to stuff that is only in 
Microsoft's interest, not their customers'.  You can't say
"required" as 
if they have no choice.  They don't want to explain the way they pocket 
monopoly money to keep shouting Microsoft's message at the customer over 
and over, because that's an ugly truth their customers can understand.

-Andy