10:36 a.m.
I am debating getting a netbook to replace my ee701 as a sometime
machine or a tablet. There are a number of options but basically it
comes down to what this second device is for.
What is the progress of Fedora on 'cheap' tablets, as I would like this
effort to come in under $100? I did see one interesting page on Fedora
on a tablet:
https://nohats.ca/wordpress/blog/2012/07/05/the-chinese-g101-tablet-and-f...
I can't find a price for this, though I could probably get one of my
colleagues from Heuwei or China Mobile to bring one to the next IEEE
meeting. Are there affordable atom based tablets? Seems not. Sigh.
So the other approach is to just get an Android Tablet referbed and use
it for its limited use, to get familiar with tablets already.
But it sure would be interesting to have a working, cheap, Fedora tablet!
4:29 a.m.
On Friday 23 November 2012 19:39:23 Jim wrote:
I have a Asus 1000 that came with Linux on it , it had 32gb SSD I
upgraded it to 64gb SSD.
I use mine more than I use my Laptop or PC and I have upgraded it with
Fedora since F10. And it is the reason I won't buy a Tablet.
The Mini's are cheaper than a Tablet, 1/2 to 1/3 .
These Tablets are waste of money, I don't understand why people jump on
the wagon just to be like their friends.
It's horses for courses. I have an ASUS which I keep in my travel bag and use
quite often. This runs Linux.
I also have a Galaxy SII and a Galaxy Tab which I use most as they're quicker.
I have VPN, SSH and VNC on both my phone and my tab and use both for work.
The phone is most convenient as I always have it on me, the Tab is just
easier to use cos of it's size.
The ASUS is effecively a full workstation so I use that for doing serious work
(other than just remote connectivity)
I haven't even considered putting Linux on the Tab as that to me would be a
backword step. Android is the best platform for the Tab, Linux is the best
platform for the ASUS. That simple really.
My most fun is when a friend pulls out a iphone and I pull out my
Galaxy
SII with that larger screen on them, and say THIS !!! is a real cell phone.
Yeah, I like that bit too.
--
Gary Stainburn
Group I.T. Manager
Ringways Garages
http://www.ringways.co.uk
3:47 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com> wrote:
On 11/23/2012 02:56 PM, JD wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Alan Cox <alan(a)lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
>>>> better than you report.
>>>
>>> With a keyboard permanently attached ...
>>>
>>>> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
>>>> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
>>>> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
>>>> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
>>>
>>> One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
>>> complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
>>> That really hurts although it can still be usable.
>>
>>
>> Bad performance could be the result of 'less than optimal' SD cards.
>> Even slow-rated cards (Class 4) sometimes outperform fast (Class 10)
>> cards
>> depending on what you do with them. Checkout the following analysis:
>>
>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12330898
>
> I agree as far as SD card performance grade.
> When you switch to the Extreme level of performance (45MB/s read/write),
> you will see almost hard drive level of performance. Of course, you must
> be aware of what happens to SD card when written to very often.
> So I would suggest that you mount you /tmp and /var/tmp and your home dir
> on some other drive.
I mounted all of /var on the SDD to include logs. But is there a way to
mount /tmp and /var to the same partition? That is a major issue: how to
figure out how large to make separate partitiions when there is so little
space to work with!
As for /home, there is very little writing to /home. It is better to manage
all frequent data on a USB drive.
I would think that you would have to do it manually.
There is a way to overlay any directory with a directory
on some other permanent storage device. This is called
the overlay feature.
I know how to do this for Knoppix live. Not sure how
to do it for fedora live because I have not and do not use it.
2:19 p.m.
On 11/23/2012 02:56 PM, JD wrote:
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Fulko Hew
<fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Alan Cox <alan(a)lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
>>> better than you report.
>> With a keyboard permanently attached ...
>>
>>> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
>>> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
>>> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
>>> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
>> One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
>> complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
>> That really hurts although it can still be usable.
>
> Bad performance could be the result of 'less than optimal' SD cards.
> Even slow-rated cards (Class 4) sometimes outperform fast (Class 10) cards
> depending on what you do with them. Checkout the following analysis:
>
> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12330898
I agree as far as SD card performance grade.
When you switch to the Extreme level of performance (45MB/s read/write),
you will see almost hard drive level of performance. Of course, you must
be aware of what happens to SD card when written to very often.
So I would suggest that you mount you /tmp and /var/tmp and your home dir
on some other drive.
I mounted all of /var on the SDD to include logs. But is there
a way to
mount /tmp and /var to the same partition? That is a major issue: how
to figure out how large to make separate partitiions when there is so
little space to work with!
As for /home, there is very little writing to /home. It is better to
manage all frequent data on a USB drive.
1:56 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Alan Cox
<alan(a)lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
> > better than you report.
>
> With a keyboard permanently attached ...
>
> > I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
> > with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
> > research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
> > LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
>
> One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
> complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
> That really hurts although it can still be usable.
Bad performance could be the result of 'less than optimal' SD cards.
Even slow-rated cards (Class 4) sometimes outperform fast (Class 10) cards
depending on what you do with them. Checkout the following analysis:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12330898
I agree as far as SD card performance grade.
When you switch to the Extreme level of performance (45MB/s read/write),
you will see almost hard drive level of performance. Of course, you must
be aware of what happens to SD card when written to very often.
So I would suggest that you mount you /tmp and /var/tmp and your home dir
on some other drive.
1:39 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Alan Cox <alan(a)lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
> better than you report.
With a keyboard permanently attached ...
> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
That really hurts although it can still be usable.
Bad performance could be the result of 'less than optimal' SD cards.
Even slow-rated cards (Class 4) sometimes outperform fast (Class 10) cards
depending on what you do with them. Checkout the following analysis:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12330898
1:39 p.m.
On 11/23/2012 01:54 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
On 11/23/2012 01:37 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
>> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
>> better than you report.
> With a keyboard permanently attached ...
>
>> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
>> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
>> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
>> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
> One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
> complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
> That really hurts although it can still be usable.
hmmm.
On my ee701 (4Gb SSD), I had used a 8Gb SD card for most of f12, then
f14. It worked well enough. WIth f17, I jumped to a 16Gb SD; it was
a cheap one and perhaps that is why it failed in constant use? My
layout has /boot, /var, and swap on the SSD and everything else on the
SD card. This time I am going to set it so that I fit everything on
the SSD drive; that is going to be quite a slimmed down install.
Instead of a 1.5Gb swap (1Gb memory). I will go with something just
over 1Gb so hopefully hibernate still works. But perhaps again for
what I use it for, a 5Gb swap is ok and forget hibernate all together
as suspend does work.
I have a Asus 1000 that came with Linux on it , it had 32gb SSD I
upgraded it to 64gb SSD.
I use mine more than I use my Laptop or PC and I have upgraded it with
Fedora since F10. And it is the reason I won't buy a Tablet.
The Mini's are cheaper than a Tablet, 1/2 to 1/3 .
These Tablets are waste of money, I don't understand why people jump on
the wagon just to be like their friends.
My most fun is when a friend pulls out a iphone and I pull out my Galaxy
SII with that larger screen on them, and say THIS !!! is a real cell phone.
12:54 p.m.
On 11/23/2012 01:37 PM, Alan Cox wrote:
> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working
somewhat
> better than you report.
With a keyboard permanently attached ...
> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
That really hurts although it can still be usable.
hmmm.
On my ee701 (4Gb SSD), I had used a 8Gb SD card for most of f12, then
f14. It worked well enough. WIth f17, I jumped to a 16Gb SD; it was a
cheap one and perhaps that is why it failed in constant use? My layout
has /boot, /var, and swap on the SSD and everything else on the SD
card. This time I am going to set it so that I fit everything on the
SSD drive; that is going to be quite a slimmed down install. Instead of
a 1.5Gb swap (1Gb memory). I will go with something just over 1Gb so
hopefully hibernate still works. But perhaps again for what I use it
for, a 5Gb swap is ok and forget hibernate all together as suspend does
work.
12:37 p.m.
Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
better than you report.
With a keyboard permanently attached ...
I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
That really hurts although it can still be usable.
12:18 p.m.
On 11/23/2012 11:57 AM, Alan Cox wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:36:41 -0500
Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com> wrote:
> I am debating getting a netbook to replace my ee701 as a sometime
> machine or a tablet. There are a number of options but basically it
> comes down to what this second device is for.
>
> What is the progress of Fedora on 'cheap' tablets, as I would like this
> effort to come in under $100? I did see one interesting page on Fedora
> on a tablet:
>
https://nohats.ca/wordpress/blog/2012/07/05/the-chinese-g101-tablet-and-f...
>
> I can't find a price for this, though I could probably get one of my
> colleagues from Heuwei or China Mobile to bring one to the next IEEE
> meeting. Are there affordable atom based tablets? Seems not. Sigh.
>
> So the other approach is to just get an Android Tablet referbed and use
> it for its limited use, to get familiar with tablets already.
>
> But it sure would be interesting to have a working, cheap, Fedora tablet!
I have an Oaktrail based Q550 x86 tablet and while it will run Fedora I
wouldn't bother. The keyboardless handling on Fedora is a shambles (eg
the screenlock and gdm out of the box don't provide working keyboard) and
the device is basically unusable with Fedora as a result.
Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
better than you report.
Ubuntu on the other hand appears to have gotten most of this working
quite usably as well as having tools/support for a small number of
Android type devices. However its still pretty sluggish IMHO at this point
but it does work.
I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
10:57 a.m.
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:36:41 -0500
Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com> wrote:
I am debating getting a netbook to replace my ee701 as a sometime
machine or a tablet. There are a number of options but basically it
comes down to what this second device is for.
What is the progress of Fedora on 'cheap' tablets, as I would like this
effort to come in under $100? I did see one interesting page on Fedora
on a tablet:
https://nohats.ca/wordpress/blog/2012/07/05/the-chinese-g101-tablet-and-f...
I can't find a price for this, though I could probably get one of my
colleagues from Heuwei or China Mobile to bring one to the next IEEE
meeting. Are there affordable atom based tablets? Seems not. Sigh.
So the other approach is to just get an Android Tablet referbed and use
it for its limited use, to get familiar with tablets already.
But it sure would be interesting to have a working, cheap, Fedora tablet!
I have an Oaktrail based Q550 x86 tablet and while it will run Fedora I
wouldn't bother. The keyboardless handling on Fedora is a shambles (eg
the screenlock and gdm out of the box don't provide working keyboard) and
the device is basically unusable with Fedora as a result.
Ubuntu on the other hand appears to have gotten most of this working
quite usably as well as having tools/support for a small number of
Android type devices. However its still pretty sluggish IMHO at this point
but it does work.
Alan
4:51 p.m.
Robert Moskowitz wrote:
On 11/23/2012 02:56 PM, JD wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Fulko Hew <fulko.hew(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Alan Cox <alan(a)lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
wrote:
>>>> Fedora 17? The page I reference seems to have F17 working somewhat
>>>> better than you report.
>>> With a keyboard permanently attached ...
>>>
>>>> I might as well stay with Android. I actually have to start working
>>>> with it for my day job. I work for Verizon Enterprise Systems and my
>>>> research is leading me to working on some product development. Sigh. I
>>>> LIKE research; kind of like Medcalf back at Xerox....
>>> One of the problems with trying to drop Linux onto most tablets is the
>>> complete lack of a real disk subsystem, just slow SD card interfaces.
>>> That really hurts although it can still be usable.
>>
>> Bad performance could be the result of 'less than optimal' SD cards.
>> Even slow-rated cards (Class 4) sometimes outperform fast (Class 10) cards
>> depending on what you do with them. Checkout the following analysis:
>>
>> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=12330898
> I agree as far as SD card performance grade.
> When you switch to the Extreme level of performance (45MB/s read/write),
> you will see almost hard drive level of performance. Of course, you must
> be aware of what happens to SD card when written to very often.
> So I would suggest that you mount you /tmp and /var/tmp and your home dir
> on some other drive.
I mounted all of /var on the SDD to include logs. But is there a way to mount
/tmp and /var to the same partition? That is a major issue: how to figure out
how large to make separate partitiions when there is so little space to work with!
Two ways to do it, start with one partition and two subdirectories. You can make
them appear as /tmp and /var with symbolic links, but the use of bind mounts is
probably less likely to cause problems. I would have to research using bind
mounts in fstab, someone very familiar with bot sequences may tell me you can't.
Since the boot methods seem to change every other release, I can't say. And I do
this but not for anything vital like /tmp, so I can put my bind mounts in
rc.local along with some error checking and correcting code.
As for /home, there is very little writing to /home. It is better to
manage all
frequent data on a USB drive.
--
Bill Davidsen <davidsen(a)tmr.com>
"We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot
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Robert Moskowitz