All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page:
http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-table...
It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility.
I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these changes, please let me know.
If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know.
Hrishi
On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 13:13 -0500, Hrishikesh Ballal wrote:
All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page:
http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-table...
Very nice. The main thing that pops out is that the third column has "Links" and the right-hand side has "Fedora Links". Perhaps they should be unified.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:13:32 -0500, Hrishikesh Ballal wrote
All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page:
http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-table...
It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility.
I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these changes, please let me know.
If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know.
Hrishi
Hi Hrishi,
Many people in US are the road due to Thanksgiving Holidays. I myself will be moving to a new home this weekend.
I would suggest to bring this subject next week.
In fact, we should have our own regular meeting on #fedora-wiki -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!"
Hrishikesh Ballal wrote:
All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page:
http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-table...
It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility.
Thank you for working on this. My suggestins:
* Drop the "Get Fedora" title. * Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects. * Split the screen below into news and development. * Search should be available on top.
I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these changes, please let me know.
Prefer to see a screenshot if it isnt too much trouble.
If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know.
There is a html plugin for moinmoin which does that. I think Seth agreed to enable it in the site. Go ahead and use it if the wiki markup is a constraint.
regards Rahul
Ps: How is the revamp of http://fedora.redhat.com progressing Greg?
On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hrishikesh Ballal wrote:
All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page:
http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-table...
It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility.
Thank you for working on this. My suggestins:
- Drop the "Get Fedora" title.
- Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects.
- Split the screen below into news and development.
- Search should be available on top.
As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com. It is a good way to implement the ideas that Alex Maier has championed in Fedora Marketing. If you look back to that list's archives for this issue, you'll find the source for this design element.
I find the justification of both margins in the columns makes for very odd text spacing at different browser sizes. I would suggest going to plain left justification for better readability.
Hi
As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com.
getfirefox.com to my understanding exists to redirect to the appropriate place in a Mozilla website which includes several other products including the Mozilla suite and Bugzilla. Not sure that applies to Fedora very well. Many users would only expect a download link (which should be much more prominent) with a "Get Fedora" title. While releases notes and FAQ's does fall into it in a abstract way I dont think thats being conveyed very well. If its a title, it should be just the Fedora wordmark and logo and maybe a slogan.
regards Rahul
On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 00:46 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com.
getfirefox.com to my understanding exists to redirect to the appropriate place in a Mozilla website which includes several other products including the Mozilla suite and Bugzilla. Not sure that applies to Fedora very well. Many users would only expect a download link (which should be much more prominent) with a "Get Fedora" title. While releases notes and FAQ's does fall into it in a abstract way I dont think thats being conveyed very well. If its a title, it should be just the Fedora wordmark and logo and maybe a slogan.
Perhaps the idea then should be to have a shorter, punchier description of Fedora, then a large appropriately-colored "Get Fedora" link that arrives at an easy-to understand download page -- better than what the Wiki currently has, which is mind-boggling to people new to Linux. (I like the idea of the link saying "Get Fedora. Get [Infinite] Freedom."
On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hrishikesh Ballal wrote:
Thank you for working on this. My suggestins:
- Drop the "Get Fedora" title.
I'm OK with this staying _and_ being a direct link to a download page, which maybe gives individual instructions on e.g. using sha5 by detecting what browser and platform is hitting the page.
If it stays, the period must be dropped from "Get Fedora.", as Rahul pointed out previously.
Ps: How is the revamp of http://fedora.redhat.com progressing Greg?
Greg and Alex finished their run over the content, hope to see the changes in CVS soon. You'll hear/see when they hit.
- Karsten
The following are my responses (with modified mockup) to the suggestions made on this list during the last few days.
- "Get Fedora" should remain...it could link to the downloads page. It can also do with or without the period. I was trying to find the email with the argument against having the "." but can't seem to locate it. I like it with "." It's also a statement/sentence and so the "." is not too unreasonable...but it's not a major point and I can compromise to leave it out...the important thing is to keep the title. The "Get Fedora" focuses the visitor's attention and is a clear "call to action" of a good starting point.
- Move links to side...sure...if someone wants to come up with what the groupings should be named. - split screen below to news and development...*see mockup* - search up top...yup - "site navigation"...*see mockup for suggestion* - justified text...i think we should continue to justify text. - i had not included the top links in my previous mockup because I thought they would just carry over to this iteration...however, if we are to consolidate all the links to the right...what should we do with those?...move them as well? and should we have a new category for those links? *see mockup*
*mockup: http://www.isity.net/temp/FrontPageMod01.png
Diana
On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Thank you for working on this. My suggestins:
- Drop the "Get Fedora" title.
- Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects.
- Split the screen below into news and development.
- Search should be available on top.
On 11/28/05, Diana Fong dfong@redhat.com wrote:
The following are my responses (with modified mockup) to the suggestions made on this list during the last few days.
- "Get Fedora" should remain...it could link to the downloads page. It
can also do with or without the period. I was trying to find the email with the argument against having the "." but can't seem to locate it. I like it with "." It's also a statement/sentence and so the "." is not too unreasonable...but it's not a major point and I can compromise to leave it out...the important thing is to keep the title. The "Get Fedora" focuses the visitor's attention and is a clear "call to action" of a good starting point.
1. I will vote for the "With Period". 2. In the previous mockups and in this one too, there is a space between in the images in the first row. This should not be hard to correct. 3. I personnally shall align the "Get Fedora" Title with the following paragraph. 4. Please forgive my ignorance. Why haven't we use "Get Fedora Core." as title? Anyway this question/answer can be added in the FAQ.
regards Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com
hey - why don't y'all work on trying one out like a "TestFrontPage" Page.
just add #format html to the top and see how well it works.
I added the html parser to our wiki instance.
I used it on my personal page there: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SethVidal
-sv
seth vidal wrote:
hey - why don't y'all work on trying one out like a "TestFrontPage" Page.
just add #format html to the top and see how well it works.
I added the html parser to our wiki instance.
I used it on my personal page there: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SethVidal
-sv
Sweet! Thanks!
Now we can really get moving on prototyping this stuff. If we do decide to change up the links in the sidebar, that will require a separate patch to the theme, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. :-)
My first draft is up! I encourage anyone who is interested to check it out and hack on it!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain
It is a bit rough around the edges, but it demonstrates some of the basic ideas we've gone over. It is roughly based upon Diana's mockup. I haven't played with the styles too much. If you want to play, remember two things: you can copy the markup of this page to another location to play with, and you can use 'Preview' to check out changes before you commit them.
Please report new revisions and thoughts back to this thread.
I would really like to see the sidebar go away or become something else. As-is, it will always be in the way when the window is sized down. Moving it to the top in an abbreviated form or perhaps moving it to the left side would help a lot. I like it when the browser window is at 1024x768 or better, but at lower resolutions it conflicts with the page content. Other opinions?
It's neat to see all the designs flying by on the list!
There's just one point I'd like to make: simplicity is the essence of a good design, and plentiful whitespace is the best indicator of simplicity.
Right now the page looks awefully crowded and complex. The whole art of web design revolves around taking complex information and organizing it in a manner that is simple to absorb.
I seem to remember reading once about a rule in user interface design that said that you should never have more than 7 items on any level of a menu, and never more than two levels of menus. I think we should try to imagine applying a similar rule to the web site, and perhaps add some navigational cues to help people understand where they are within the site.
Some $0.02 to think about, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill?
On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 13:52 -0500, Diana Fong wrote:
- "Get Fedora" ... can also do with or without the period.
It was Paul who made the point originally, and I was certain that it was a specific GNOME documentation style guide. You may not know, but in FDP we specify this order for deciding style:
1. Chicago Manual of Style 2. GNOME Documentation Style Guide 3. Fedora Documentation Guide
That is, we default to 1, then 2, and note exceptions in 3. This is typical of writing projects, having a canonical reference outside of the project, and noting project rules and exceptions in a style guide.
So, it may be a CMS recommendation that I can't look up. It is not, unfortunately, specified in the GNOME guide ... but, if you look at the ToC for that guide, you won't see a title or heading with a period in it:
http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html
We will be sure to include this rule in the next version of the Fedora Documentation Guide. For now, I'll just ask all to remember that we don't put periods in titles. FWIW, Mozilla didn't either with "Get Firefox".
- Karsten
On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 15:50 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote:
I would really like to see the sidebar go away or become something else. As-is, it will always be in the way when the window is sized down. Moving it to the top in an abbreviated form or perhaps moving it to the left side would help a lot. I like it when the browser window is at 1024x768 or better, but at lower resolutions it conflicts with the page content. Other opinions?
Maybe to the left. Content that needs to expand always expand going to the right, where it jams up against or is hidden by the right-side navigation.
Right-side nav has been trendy in the past few years, but whatever. Let's go back to what works.
- Karsten, who has a 1024x768 laptop screen with panels, gkrellm, and widgets that make it a bit smaller than that.
-- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64@n-man.com
www.n-man.com
Karsten Wade wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 13:52 -0500, Diana Fong wrote:
- "Get Fedora" ... can also do with or without the period.
It was Paul who made the point originally, and I was certain that it was a specific GNOME documentation style guide. You may not know, but in FDP we specify this order for deciding style:
- Chicago Manual of Style
- GNOME Documentation Style Guide
- Fedora Documentation Guide
That is, we default to 1, then 2, and note exceptions in 3. This is typical of writing projects, having a canonical reference outside of the project, and noting project rules and exceptions in a style guide.
So, it may be a CMS recommendation that I can't look up. It is not, unfortunately, specified in the GNOME guide ... but, if you look at the ToC for that guide, you won't see a title or heading with a period in it:
http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html
We will be sure to include this rule in the next version of the Fedora Documentation Guide. For now, I'll just ask all to remember that we don't put periods in titles. FWIW, Mozilla didn't either with "Get Firefox".
- Karsten
The question I would like to raise is this: Is it a title, or is it an introductory statement?
I agree that a period does not belong in a title, but it does belong in an introductory statement. We simply have to decide which one this is. When I was coming up with the design for the current front page, I tried both ways. The current result presents it as a title, without a period. The design I have produced as a prototype uses it more as an introductory statement, in which a period would belong. How do we want to use it?
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:18:08 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote
The question I would like to raise is this: Is it a title, or is it an introductory statement?
I agree that a period does not belong in a title, but it does belong in an introductory statement. We simply have to decide which one this is. When I was coming up with the design for the current front page, I tried both ways. The current result presents it as a title, without a period. The design I have produced as a prototype uses it more as an introductory statement, in which a period would belong. How do we want to use it?
-- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64@n-man.com
www.n-man.com
Please don't shoot me. :) Have we considered "Get Fedora!" ? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain
-- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!"
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:26:01 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote ...
Have we considered "Get Fedora!" ? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain
In addition, we could use a few different customized banners just like:
-- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!"
websites@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Chitlesh GOORAH -
Diana Fong -
Elliot Lee -
Hrishikesh Ballal -
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -
Karsten Wade -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram -
seth vidal -
Thomas Chung