A suggestion

[Dharmit Shah]

Hello,

I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to communicate
directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India I
thought of posting it here. Here's the
link<http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=251225>to my post.
It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of
you finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-)

-- 
Regards

Dharmit Shah

[Siddhesh Poyarekar]

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dharmit Shah <shahdharmit(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to
> communicate
>  directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India I
>  thought of posting it here. Here's the link to my post. It's a humble
>  suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't
>  start firing me. :-)
>  
It would have been nice if you could actually paste your suggestion
here instead of simply linking to it (that too in html). It helps
keeping context of the conversation for those who read the mailing
list via the web interface. I will paste it here for you:

===================
Hello,

I am a happy Linux, specifically Fedora, user since almost 2 years.
But I've tried various flavors of Linux till now. I've been telling my
friends to use Linux and ditch Windows. Some of them have given a shot
to Linux as well. But there is one thing that confuses many.

During installation everything except partitioning is simple. For
experienced Linux user, it is not an issue at all. But I've seen many
newbies getting confused when it comes to partitioning. They generally
use default option and at times it wipes out the entire hard disk.
Windows' installation gives a very simple layout of partitions on the
hard disk which makes its installation very simple for dumb computer
users as well. The wiping out of data makes people feel like Linux is
too tough to install. Even worse thinking that some people around me
have developed is that Linux takes up entire hard disk in
installation. On the contrary, we - the Linux fans, know that it
hardly requires 5 GB of disk space.

I think there needs to be little change or modification to the
installer in order to make the installation bit more newbie-friendly.

PS - I am not being harsh to Linux installation. I am die-hard Linux
fan and want to see Linux flourish day-by-day. So this is a simple
suggestion from my side.
===================

Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS, so it
would be unfair to compare installation simplicity based on
partitioning. A fair comparison would be default partitions for
Windows vs Linux (fedora, Ubuntu, etc) and they're not too different.
I would vote for the Linux installer being better purely because it
allows decent control in case of multiboot.

As for the default option, I understand that it is to use all linux
partitions and empty space as of Fedora 13 and that should not eat up
your Windows partition. I have never had a chance to explore this
lately though, since I have not installed Windows and Linux in
parallel for some years now.

-- 
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.in

[Dharmit Shah]

Sorry. Shall take care from next time. And thanks for pasting it up here,

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar <
siddhesh.poyarekar(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dharmit Shah
> <shahdharmit(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  wrote:
>  > I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to
>  communicate
>  > directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India
>  I
>  > thought of posting it here. Here's the link to my post. It's a humble
>  > suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't
>  > start firing me. :-)
>  >
>
>  It would have been nice if you could actually paste your suggestion
>  here instead of simply linking to it (that too in html). It helps
>  keeping context of the conversation for those who read the mailing
>  list via the web interface. I will paste it here for you:
>
>  ===================
>  Hello,
>
>  I am a happy Linux, specifically Fedora, user since almost 2 years.
>  But I've tried various flavors of Linux till now. I've been telling my
>  friends to use Linux and ditch Windows. Some of them have given a shot
>  to Linux as well. But there is one thing that confuses many.
>
>  During installation everything except partitioning is simple. For
>  experienced Linux user, it is not an issue at all. But I've seen many
>  newbies getting confused when it comes to partitioning. They generally
>  use default option and at times it wipes out the entire hard disk.
>  Windows' installation gives a very simple layout of partitions on the
>  hard disk which makes its installation very simple for dumb computer
>  users as well. The wiping out of data makes people feel like Linux is
>  too tough to install. Even worse thinking that some people around me
>  have developed is that Linux takes up entire hard disk in
>  installation. On the contrary, we - the Linux fans, know that it
>  hardly requires 5 GB of disk space.
>
>  I think there needs to be little change or modification to the
>  installer in order to make the installation bit more newbie-friendly.
>
>  PS - I am not being harsh to Linux installation. I am die-hard Linux
>  fan and want to see Linux flourish day-by-day. So this is a simple
>  suggestion from my side.
>  ===================
>
>  Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS, so it
>  would be unfair to compare installation simplicity based on
>  partitioning. A fair comparison would be default partitions for
>  Windows vs Linux (fedora, Ubuntu, etc) and they're not too different.
>  I would vote for the Linux installer being better purely because it
>  allows decent control in case of multiboot.
>
>  As for the default option, I understand that it is to use all linux
>  partitions and empty space as of Fedora 13 and that should not eat up
>  your Windows partition. I have never had a chance to explore this
>  lately though, since I have not installed Windows and Linux in
>  parallel for some years now.
>
>  --
>  Siddhesh Poyarekar
>  http://siddhesh.in
>  _______________________________________________
>  india mailing list
>  india(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/india
>  


-- 
Regards

Dharmit Shah

[Jitesh Shah]

..snip..
>  Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS, 
Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out
Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many
of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows
partition.

Jitesh

[Siddhesh Poyarekar]

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Jitesh Shah <jitesh.1337(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  ..snip..
> >
> > Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS,
>
>  Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out
>  Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many
>  of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows
>  partition.
>  
You read my response wrong. I said a newbie never has to install
windows with dual boot, meaning (s)he does not have to really
understand partitioning when installing windows.


-- 
Siddhesh Poyarekar
http://siddhesh.in

[Ashwin]

On Wednesday 15 September 2010 11:53 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
>  On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Jitesh
> Shah<jitesh.1337(a)gmail.com>  wrote:
> > ..snip..
> >>
> >> Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS,
> >
> > Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out
> > Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many
> > of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows
> > partition.
> >
>
>  You read my response wrong. I said a newbie never has to install
>  windows with dual boot, meaning (s)he does not have to really
>  understand partitioning when installing windows.
>  
Based on the original post and replies, I get a feeling, that 
*awareness* about partitioning (as a concept) itself is not desired by a 
newbie due to an *assumed* complexity related to partitioning. 
Therefore, it is desired (another assumption) by a newbie and hence 
suggested, that the fedora installation process be a little different 
(fool-proof) to avoid nuking of an existing partition/s (windows or linux).

I would agree and disagree.

Disagree, as in most of the cases (Fedora / Linux installation, 
awareness, introduction camps / sessions conducted by myself), I have 
observed an *interested* newbie is highly inquisitive and wants to know 
as much details as possible, about the hardware in use, like RAM, CPU, 
VGA / Graphics Card etc. and also Partitioning, provided some one is 
willing to explain and answer their doubts in non-technical and simple 
terms.

Agree, where in a staunch M$ user, believes that he/she are not 
benefited (as freedom brings in assumed complexities and details), but 
are rather *inconvenienced* (mental enslavement is a freedom of another 
sorts - ignorance is a bliss types) by the *forced* knowledge of the 
hardware which they use and should actually be the *headache*(including 
OS installation) of the hardware vendor alone as he/she is being paid 
for AMC / service charges  etc.

In both the cases (i.e. Agree & Disagree), there is no need to change 
the current Fedora installation process (concept).

Making the installation process more informative with more tools e.g. to 
shrink / expand an exiting partition size etc. is and can be desired. 
But to make it as simple (stupid) as M$ windoze installation is for 
brainless (ignorant people using M$ windoze) who do not believe in 
Freedom in the first place, so why sacrifice our Freedom for the 
ignorant. We need to make the ignorant aware and set them free from 
their self-imposed mental enslavement, to appreciate the true fruits of 
Freedom.

with Regards,
ASHWIN

[Dharmit Shah]

Newbies always dual boot it with Windows. Once they get accustomed to Linux,
then only they think of wiping out the Windows partition. Anyway, I didn't
want to start debate or any kind of argument. I just wanted to put forward
my suggestion so that the contributors here can take it forward.

-- 
Regards

Dharmit Shah

[Ravi D. Sharma]

Hello guys,


As i understand the problem is true however changing the installer is not a
solution but default option can resolve it. So beside fedora remove all
partion it does manually by default option.However dont think to change
fedora is awesome!!



regards,
Ravi

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Dharmit Shah <shahdharmit(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Newbies always dual boot it with Windows. Once they get accustomed
> to
>  Linux, then only they think of wiping out the Windows partition. Anyway, I
>  didn't want to start debate or any kind of argument. I just wanted to put
>  forward my suggestion so that the contributors here can take it forward.
>
>  --
>  Regards
>
>  Dharmit Shah
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  india mailing list
>  india(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/india
>

[Rahul Sundaram]

 On 09/14/2010 02:07 PM, Dharmit Shah wrote:
>  Hello,
>
>  I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to
>  communicate directly with the fedora project. Since there are
>  contributors from India I thought of posting it here. Here's the link
>  <http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=251225> to my post.
>  It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you
>  finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-) 
The way to suggest changes in the installer is to file bug reports or
request for enhancements via bugzilla or post to anaconda-devel list

https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list

None of us here are involved in the development and won't be able to
make any effective changes.

Rahul