On Monday 31 May 2010, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 2010-05-31 at 22:51 +0000, g wrote:
> Máirín Duffy wrote:
> > On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 16:32 +0000, g wrote:
> >> where was posting of new design for list members to view new design?
> >
> > On the lists (note the 's' there) where people make posts about
> > websites and design in Fedora. If you're not interested in websites
> > and design in the Fedora project, then you likely weren't subscribed
> > to those lists.
>
> that is correct. but if i where a member of website design, i would
> insure that all of *community* was notified of intent to make change and
> not just dump changes on them and take offense of there opinions.
When would you have time to do actual website design?
> after all, when you design a web page, you are expressing opinion of how
> something should look. therefore, to be mature, you should not take
> offense to someone else's opinion.
You are not in any position to give personal advice without it coming
across in a manner that you I am sure you would not want to purposefully
aim for. Personal commentary like this doesn't have any place in this
discussion so let's try to avoid it, okay?
Would you perhaps need a ladder to reach the saddle of that horse?
If you disagree with a design for something implemented in Fedora,
here
are some examples of inappropriate reactions (all witnessed in this
thread unfortunately):
1 - Rant that nobody asked for YOUR opinion, especially when feedback
was actually solicited over a period of several months across several
forums that are heavily frequented by Fedora users and contributors
alike.
A few of said users maybe, but by not copying to this list, you probably
bypassed, and here I'm guessing without even a scientific basis here, 85% of
the everyday users.
2 - Spread conspiracy theories about how the design took place in
secret, when the design actually took place in an open and transparent
manner, with frequent updates to the design posted over a period of
months.
As I am not subscribed to the lists you maintain were the proper ones for
web design, it was, as far as we could see, done in secret.
3 - Attack the designers personally, as their { intellect | design
qualifications | personal taste | people skills | value as a human
being } are obviously not good enough for Fedora.
4 - Belittle the designer, making remarks and suppositions about their
personal traits, and give them some motherly/fatherly advice on how they
must behave according to your preferences and values, and tell them
everything they say is 'BS' when they attempt to provide the reasoning
behind the design decisions that took place.
For that which I did, I apologize.
If you pay attention to the emails I've written on this thread,
I've not
taken offense at anyone's opinion of the website. Where I have taken
offense is where I've been personally insulted, my skills as a designer
and commitment to Fedora and its community have been questioned, and
where I was told that I am full of 'BS'.
I would *LOVE* to hear more actual feedback on the website and its
design - we've been asking for it for months. This thread shows clearly
that this list is apparently not a great place to get it - it makes it
clear that asking for feedback on this particular list in the first
place would have been a bad idea.
I have to disagree milady. Had this list, where the majority of the
'users'
are subscribed, been asked to go take a look at the proposed site, I think
the level of rancor expressed by some of us, myself included, would have
been virtually non-existent. The major question most of us asked is where
did the torrents go? Secondarily I commented about the font sizes, which
seemed excessively large, wasting screen space for those who do not have a
high resolution monitor. Even on my 1680x1050 screen, there was a lot of
scrolling required to see the whole page.
> > If you are interested in websites and design in Fedora and
you are not
> > subscribed to those lists, then I suggest that you subscribe to them
> > now, unless you plan to continue on those lists in the manner you have
> > carried on in this list. People actually attempt to get work done in
> > those lists, and we really don't need them cluttered up with
> > ridiculously unproductive threads like this.
>
> that is a biased statement and shows a lacking of others opinion.
How is it biased?
By appearing to have a heavy disdain for the opinions of the (apparently
unwashed in your opinion) fedora _users_. We are just the rabble I guess.
We are not qualified to comment one way or the other. As you see it...
~m
Now, this topic has worn out its welcome, and I apologize to the list for
tossing yet another gallon of K2 on the fire. Please let it die, or better
yet, put it out of its misery.
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!