Hello,
I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to communicate directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India I thought of posting it here. Here's the linkhttp://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=251225to my post. It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-)
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dharmit Shah shahdharmit@gmail.com wrote:
I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to communicate directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India I thought of posting it here. Here's the link to my post. It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-)
It would have been nice if you could actually paste your suggestion here instead of simply linking to it (that too in html). It helps keeping context of the conversation for those who read the mailing list via the web interface. I will paste it here for you:
=================== Hello,
I am a happy Linux, specifically Fedora, user since almost 2 years. But I've tried various flavors of Linux till now. I've been telling my friends to use Linux and ditch Windows. Some of them have given a shot to Linux as well. But there is one thing that confuses many.
During installation everything except partitioning is simple. For experienced Linux user, it is not an issue at all. But I've seen many newbies getting confused when it comes to partitioning. They generally use default option and at times it wipes out the entire hard disk. Windows' installation gives a very simple layout of partitions on the hard disk which makes its installation very simple for dumb computer users as well. The wiping out of data makes people feel like Linux is too tough to install. Even worse thinking that some people around me have developed is that Linux takes up entire hard disk in installation. On the contrary, we - the Linux fans, know that it hardly requires 5 GB of disk space.
I think there needs to be little change or modification to the installer in order to make the installation bit more newbie-friendly.
PS - I am not being harsh to Linux installation. I am die-hard Linux fan and want to see Linux flourish day-by-day. So this is a simple suggestion from my side. ===================
Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS, so it would be unfair to compare installation simplicity based on partitioning. A fair comparison would be default partitions for Windows vs Linux (fedora, Ubuntu, etc) and they're not too different. I would vote for the Linux installer being better purely because it allows decent control in case of multiboot.
As for the default option, I understand that it is to use all linux partitions and empty space as of Fedora 13 and that should not eat up your Windows partition. I have never had a chance to explore this lately though, since I have not installed Windows and Linux in parallel for some years now.
Sorry. Shall take care from next time. And thanks for pasting it up here,
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar < siddhesh.poyarekar@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dharmit Shah shahdharmit@gmail.com wrote:
I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to
communicate
directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India
I
thought of posting it here. Here's the link to my post. It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-)
It would have been nice if you could actually paste your suggestion here instead of simply linking to it (that too in html). It helps keeping context of the conversation for those who read the mailing list via the web interface. I will paste it here for you:
=================== Hello,
I am a happy Linux, specifically Fedora, user since almost 2 years. But I've tried various flavors of Linux till now. I've been telling my friends to use Linux and ditch Windows. Some of them have given a shot to Linux as well. But there is one thing that confuses many.
During installation everything except partitioning is simple. For experienced Linux user, it is not an issue at all. But I've seen many newbies getting confused when it comes to partitioning. They generally use default option and at times it wipes out the entire hard disk. Windows' installation gives a very simple layout of partitions on the hard disk which makes its installation very simple for dumb computer users as well. The wiping out of data makes people feel like Linux is too tough to install. Even worse thinking that some people around me have developed is that Linux takes up entire hard disk in installation. On the contrary, we - the Linux fans, know that it hardly requires 5 GB of disk space.
I think there needs to be little change or modification to the installer in order to make the installation bit more newbie-friendly.
PS - I am not being harsh to Linux installation. I am die-hard Linux fan and want to see Linux flourish day-by-day. So this is a simple suggestion from my side. ===================
Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS, so it would be unfair to compare installation simplicity based on partitioning. A fair comparison would be default partitions for Windows vs Linux (fedora, Ubuntu, etc) and they're not too different. I would vote for the Linux installer being better purely because it allows decent control in case of multiboot.
As for the default option, I understand that it is to use all linux partitions and empty space as of Fedora 13 and that should not eat up your Windows partition. I have never had a chance to explore this lately though, since I have not installed Windows and Linux in parallel for some years now.
-- Siddhesh Poyarekar http://siddhesh.in _______________________________________________ india mailing list india@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/india
..snip..
Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS,
Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows partition.
Jitesh
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Jitesh Shah jitesh.1337@gmail.com wrote:
..snip..
Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS,
Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows partition.
You read my response wrong. I said a newbie never has to install windows with dual boot, meaning (s)he does not have to really understand partitioning when installing windows.
On Wednesday 15 September 2010 11:53 PM, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Jitesh Shahjitesh.1337@gmail.com wrote:
..snip..
Newbies never ever try to install Windows alongside another OS,
Not true. This happens all the time. Anyone who wants to try out Linux, always has windows and wants windows running side-by-side. Many of them just get a DVD, give it a shot and end up with a wiped Windows partition.
You read my response wrong. I said a newbie never has to install windows with dual boot, meaning (s)he does not have to really understand partitioning when installing windows.
Based on the original post and replies, I get a feeling, that *awareness* about partitioning (as a concept) itself is not desired by a newbie due to an *assumed* complexity related to partitioning. Therefore, it is desired (another assumption) by a newbie and hence suggested, that the fedora installation process be a little different (fool-proof) to avoid nuking of an existing partition/s (windows or linux).
I would agree and disagree.
Disagree, as in most of the cases (Fedora / Linux installation, awareness, introduction camps / sessions conducted by myself), I have observed an *interested* newbie is highly inquisitive and wants to know as much details as possible, about the hardware in use, like RAM, CPU, VGA / Graphics Card etc. and also Partitioning, provided some one is willing to explain and answer their doubts in non-technical and simple terms.
Agree, where in a staunch M$ user, believes that he/she are not benefited (as freedom brings in assumed complexities and details), but are rather *inconvenienced* (mental enslavement is a freedom of another sorts - ignorance is a bliss types) by the *forced* knowledge of the hardware which they use and should actually be the *headache*(including OS installation) of the hardware vendor alone as he/she is being paid for AMC / service charges etc.
In both the cases (i.e. Agree & Disagree), there is no need to change the current Fedora installation process (concept).
Making the installation process more informative with more tools e.g. to shrink / expand an exiting partition size etc. is and can be desired. But to make it as simple (stupid) as M$ windoze installation is for brainless (ignorant people using M$ windoze) who do not believe in Freedom in the first place, so why sacrifice our Freedom for the ignorant. We need to make the ignorant aware and set them free from their self-imposed mental enslavement, to appreciate the true fruits of Freedom.
with Regards, ASHWIN
Newbies always dual boot it with Windows. Once they get accustomed to Linux, then only they think of wiping out the Windows partition. Anyway, I didn't want to start debate or any kind of argument. I just wanted to put forward my suggestion so that the contributors here can take it forward.
Hello guys,
As i understand the problem is true however changing the installer is not a solution but default option can resolve it. So beside fedora remove all partion it does manually by default option.However dont think to change fedora is awesome!!
regards, Ravi
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Dharmit Shah shahdharmit@gmail.com wrote:
Newbies always dual boot it with Windows. Once they get accustomed to Linux, then only they think of wiping out the Windows partition. Anyway, I didn't want to start debate or any kind of argument. I just wanted to put forward my suggestion so that the contributors here can take it forward.
-- Regards
Dharmit Shah
india mailing list india@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/india
On 09/14/2010 02:07 PM, Dharmit Shah wrote:
Hello,
I made a suggestion on Fedoraforum.org. A guy there asked me to communicate directly with the fedora project. Since there are contributors from India I thought of posting it here. Here's the link http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=251225 to my post. It's a humble suggestion with no aggression. So if someone of you finds it harsh, don't start firing me. :-)
The way to suggest changes in the installer is to file bug reports or request for enhancements via bugzilla or post to anaconda-devel list
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/anaconda-devel-list
None of us here are involved in the development and won't be able to make any effective changes.
Rahul
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Ashwin -
Dharmit Shah -
Jitesh Shah -
Rahul Sundaram -
Ravi D. Sharma -
Siddhesh Poyarekar