On 12/02/2012 10:11 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Hi Brendan, hi Jorn,
sorry again for the late reply.
Am Samstag, den 01.12.2012, 20:04 +0100 schrieb Brendan Jones:
- we have added a kernel boot parameter 'threadirqs' - prerequisite of
the rtirq package to prioritize software IRQs (very useful for dealing with latency of audio devices)
This is controversial, but I see nothing wrong with it. As long as there is no guideline that explicitly forbids it, I am willing to allow it.
- we have packaged out own background and our own KDE theme. The
background is simply the Spherical Cow them with a wave form superimposed (fedora-jam-backgrounds).
- we have packaged our own KDE theme - this has spherical cow as a
direct dependency and is only required so we can use the background image by default (for the desktop and splash) The package is fedora-jam-kde-theme
As long as everything is packaged, I see nothing wrong with it. This being said I would rather like to have the files you add to /etc/skel/.kde/ in %post as part of a package. I am not a KDE user, so I don't know if it is possible or would it collide with other packages.
- you can see the hack where we've made the logged in user a member of
the audio group by default. This is required by jack-audio-connection-kit - it prioritizes processes running under this group. Again very improtant for latency issues.
I see your point, but the modifications to /usr/share/firstboot/modules/create_user.py are a no-go. You need to move the sed commands to the livesys init script, so the changes will only be applied to the live system but not to the installed packages. Even this is controversial (think of translations), but again as long as it not explicitly forbidden, I'll turn a blind eye to it.
jack-audio-connection-kit packages a limits.d/ file to do this
No problem, everything form a package is fine.
anyway - the rest is a stock standard KDE kickstart - we haven't even deleted any packages.
You probably should to save some space. I doubt that musicians are interested in all the stuff KDE offers and be eliminating everything irrelevant applications, , you could in fact shift the focus more to music. But that's up to you.
Anyway, please keep me updated.
I have just approved your ks and wiki page. Please make the modifications to the ks ASAP.
Next steps: 1. Get the ks into the nightlies 2. Get the ks into the spins-kickstart package. Fortunately the deadline is 2012-12-11. 3. Call for a meeting of the spins SIG for approval 4. Get board approval 5. I will add this to the board meeting agenda on Wednesday.
I have to apologize to the two of you. I am incredibly busy with my dayjob and have failed horribly as a spins wrangler, but I am trying my best to get your spin in F18.
Kind regards, Christoph
Forwarding to the music-list for reference.
regards,
Brendan
From the original email
anyway - the rest is a stock standard KDE kickstart - we haven't even deleted any packages.
You probably should to save some space. I doubt that musicians are interested in all the stuff KDE offers and be eliminating everything irrelevant applications, , you could in fact shift the focus more to music. But that's up to you.
I've done a little testing on the ISO size - see
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Fedora_jam#Size_reductions_-_some_philos...
Other than Calligra and the games, I don't know what else we could take out. KDE supplies Konqueror, so in *theory* we could ditch Firefox and Thunderbird. But I've found a few things that don't work in Konqueror, so we might get yelled at if we dropped Firefox. I wish we had Chromium; the web audio stuff is cutting edge.
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.comwrote:
On 12/02/2012 10:11 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Hi Brendan, hi Jorn,
sorry again for the late reply.
Am Samstag, den 01.12.2012, 20:04 +0100 schrieb Brendan Jones:
- we have added a kernel boot parameter 'threadirqs' - prerequisite ofthe rtirq package to prioritize software IRQs (very useful for dealing with latency of audio devices)
This is controversial, but I see nothing wrong with it. As long as there is no guideline that explicitly forbids it, I am willing to allow it.
- we have packaged out own background and our own KDE theme. Thebackground is simply the Spherical Cow them with a wave form superimposed (fedora-jam-backgrounds).
- we have packaged our own KDE theme - this has spherical cow as a
direct dependency and is only required so we can use the background image by default (for the desktop and splash) The package is fedora-jam-kde-theme
As long as everything is packaged, I see nothing wrong with it. This being said I would rather like to have the files you add to /etc/skel/.kde/ in %post as part of a package. I am not a KDE user, so I don't know if it is possible or would it collide with other packages.
- you can see the hack where we've made the logged in user a member ofthe audio group by default. This is required by jack-audio-connection-kit - it prioritizes processes running under this group. Again very improtant for latency issues.
I see your point, but the modifications to /usr/share/firstboot/modules/**create_user.py are a no-go. You need to move the sed commands to the livesys init script, so the changes will only be applied to the live system but not to the installed packages. Even this is controversial (think of translations), but again as long as it not explicitly forbidden, I'll turn a blind eye to it.
jack-audio-connection-kit packages a limits.d/ file to do this
No problem, everything form a package is fine.
anyway - the rest is a stock standard KDE kickstart - we haven't even
deleted any packages.
You probably should to save some space. I doubt that musicians are interested in all the stuff KDE offers and be eliminating everything irrelevant applications, , you could in fact shift the focus more to music. But that's up to you.
Anyway, please keep me updated.
I have just approved your ks and wiki page. Please make the modifications to the ks ASAP.
Next steps: 1. Get the ks into the nightlies 2. Get the ks into the spins-kickstart package. Fortunately the deadline is 2012-12-11. 3. Call for a meeting of the spins SIG for approval 4. Get board approval 5. I will add this to the board meeting agenda on Wednesday.
I have to apologize to the two of you. I am incredibly busy with my dayjob and have failed horribly as a spins wrangler, but I am trying my best to get your spin in F18.
Kind regards, Christoph
Forwarding to the music-list for reference.
regards,
Brendan ______________________________**_________________ music mailing list music@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/musichttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
On 12/05/2012 07:26 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
From the original email
anyway - the rest is a stock standard KDE kickstart - we haven't even deleted any packages.
You probably should to save some space. I doubt that musicians are interested in all the stuff KDE offers and be eliminating everything irrelevant applications, , you could in fact shift the focus more to music. But that's up to you.
I've done a little testing on the ISO size - see
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Fedora_jam#Size_reductions_-_some_philos...
Other than Calligra and the games, I don't know what else we could take out. KDE supplies Konqueror, so in *theory* we could ditch Firefox and Thunderbird. But I've found a few things that don't work in Konqueror, so we might get yelled at if we dropped Firefox. I wish we had Chromium; the web audio stuff is cutting edge.
I think you've convinced me that we shouldn't waste too much time trying to cull it. The only advantage I can see is build time, and then that is only the first time as the rest should be in your local cache.
There are some KDE packages which may be considered to get in the way of audio, akonadi and nepomuk for example. We really don't like processes turning up in the middle of a session, but I've been trying to keep it simple and have left them in.
On the other hand I'm still open to add more packages! Some people mentioned Latex and inkscape - certainly worth consideration. Be interested to hear what other people might think.
I would probably yell at you if we dropped firefox and thunderbird :) Chromium is still a contentious issue and we all have to rely on Tom's repos for the moment
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I think you've convinced me that we shouldn't waste too much time trying to cull it. The only advantage I can see is build time, and then that is only the first time as the rest should be in your local cache.
There are some KDE packages which may be considered to get in the way of audio, akonadi and nepomuk for example. We really don't like processes turning up in the middle of a session, but I've been trying to keep it simple and have left them in.
Nepomuk can be disabled, but I don't have a problem with removing it. I think Akonadi can be disabled as well but I haven't tried it.
On the other hand I'm still open to add more packages! Some people mentioned Latex and inkscape - certainly worth consideration. Be interested to hear what other people might think.
LaTeX / TeXLive is *humongous*! A "moderate" installation is at least 300 MB and the whole boat comes to about 3 GB. Inkscape (and Scribus and GIMP and a video editor and sometimes Blender) are usually found on "multimedia" distros, so I'd like to see them. And of course CSound needs to be on an *audio* distro.
I would probably yell at you if we dropped firefox and thunderbird :) Chromium is still a contentious issue and we all have to rely on Tom's repos for the moment
Yeah, if Konqueror wasn't integrated into KDE like IE is in Windows I'd say pull Konqueror. I built a machine from the Fedora KDE Live CD a while ago only to discover that Firefox and LibreOffice weren't there - Konqueror and Calligra had taken their place.
I don't use an email client any more. I'm not paranoid about Google reading my mail just yet.
music mailing list music@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
On 12/05/2012 06:35 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I think you've convinced me that we shouldn't waste too much time trying to cull it. The only advantage I can see is build time, and then that is only the first time as the rest should be in your local cache.
There are some KDE packages which may be considered to get in the way of audio, akonadi and nepomuk for example. We really don't like processes turning up in the middle of a session, but I've been trying to keep it simple and have left them in.
Nepomuk can be disabled, but I don't have a problem with removing it. I think Akonadi can be disabled as well but I haven't tried it.
On the other hand I'm still open to add more packages! Some people mentioned Latex and inkscape - certainly worth consideration. Be interested to hear what other people might think.
LaTeX / TeXLive is *humongous*! A "moderate" installation is at least 300 MB and the whole boat comes to about 3 GB. Inkscape (and Scribus and GIMP and a video editor and sometimes Blender) are usually found on "multimedia" distros, so I'd like to see them. And of course CSound needs to be on an *audio* distro.
I agree. I don't think we *need* LaTex. What propose would it serve in the spin. We already have lilypad for engraving. Inkskape and gimp i would like to see still be on the spin, but i won't cry if we remove them
I would probably yell at you if we dropped firefox and thunderbird :) Chromium is still a contentious issue and we all have to rely on Tom's repos for the moment
Yeah, if Konqueror wasn't integrated into KDE like IE is in Windows I'd say pull Konqueror. I built a machine from the Fedora KDE Live CD a while ago only to discover that Firefox and LibreOffice weren't there - Konqueror and Calligra had taken their place. I don't use an email client any more. I'm not paranoid about Google reading my mail just yet.
Jupp. Never liked Konqueror, never will. I'm a chrome man myself, but i feel firefox should be the default browser. Although I'm not afraid of google reading my emails (they probably do), I like to have a good email client to help get all my different email account come to one spot instead of opening 3-4 tabs to check all of them.
What is the default email client in KDE?
music mailing list music@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Jørn Lomax northlomax@gmail.com wrote:
I agree. I don't think we *need* LaTex. What propose would it serve in the spin. We already have lilypad for engraving. Inkskape and gimp i would like to see still be on the spin, but i won't cry if we remove them
I vote "No" on LaTeX because of its size. I don't think even the Science spin carries the whole thing! I install the whole thing from upstream binaries on my workstation because that's what upstream recommends, but that's just me.
Jupp. Never liked Konqueror, never will. I'm a chrome man myself, but i feel firefox should be the default browser. Although I'm not afraid of google reading my emails (they probably do), I like to have a good email client to help get all my different email account come to one spot instead of opening 3-4 tabs to check all of them.
What is the default email client in KDE?
KMail. It used to be feature-competitive with Thunderbird and Evolution, and if you are doing a knowledge worker's desktop instead of an audio studio spin, the Nepomuk integration / semantic desktop features are a good bit "smarter" than GNOME 3's "Tracker". I prefer GNOME's 'evince' PDF reader to KDE's 'okular', however.
The problem I have with KDE (and GNOME) is that they take up way too much RAM. As far as I'm concerned, for a lot of "apps", the browser is the Desktop/OS these days and a tiling window manager instead of a desktop is starting to make a lot of sense. I've tried xmonad but keep dropping back to actual desktops.
On 12/05/2012 06:41 PM, Jørn Lomax wrote:
On 12/05/2012 06:35 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Brendan Jones brendan.jones.it@gmail.com wrote:
I think you've convinced me that we shouldn't waste too much time trying to cull it. The only advantage I can see is build time, and then that is only the first time as the rest should be in your local cache.
There are some KDE packages which may be considered to get in the way of audio, akonadi and nepomuk for example. We really don't like processes turning up in the middle of a session, but I've been trying to keep it simple and have left them in.
Nepomuk can be disabled, but I don't have a problem with removing it. I think Akonadi can be disabled as well but I haven't tried it.
On the other hand I'm still open to add more packages! Some people mentioned Latex and inkscape - certainly worth consideration. Be interested to hear what other people might think.
LaTeX / TeXLive is *humongous*! A "moderate" installation is at least 300 MB and the whole boat comes to about 3 GB. Inkscape (and Scribus and GIMP and a video editor and sometimes Blender) are usually found on "multimedia" distros, so I'd like to see them. And of course CSound needs to be on an *audio* distro.
I agree. I don't think we *need* LaTex. What propose would it serve in the spin. We already have lilypad for engraving. Inkskape and gimp i would like to see still be on the spin, but i won't cry if we remove them
Some have mentioned post-production of scores.
I would probably yell at you if we dropped firefox and thunderbird :) Chromium is still a contentious issue and we all have to rely on Tom's repos for the moment
Yeah, if Konqueror wasn't integrated into KDE like IE is in Windows I'd say pull Konqueror. I built a machine from the Fedora KDE Live CD a while ago only to discover that Firefox and LibreOffice weren't there - Konqueror and Calligra had taken their place. I don't use an email client any more. I'm not paranoid about Google reading my mail just yet.
Jupp. Never liked Konqueror, never will. I'm a chrome man myself, but i feel firefox should be the default browser. Although I'm not afraid of google reading my emails (they probably do), I like to have a good email client to help get all my different email account come to one spot instead of opening 3-4 tabs to check all of them.
What is the default email client in KDE?
kmail I'd imagine <snip>
regards,
bsjones
-
Brendan Jones -
Jørn Loamx -
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky