Diversity Structure: Team? SIG? Group?

[María Leandro]

Hello all.

A single person could be the advisor, yet, there is no way (not just due
time, but also due knowledge) that a single person can be running it all.

Since the beginning I've had success thanks to those who have been taking
time to help me and guide me through this, so the smartest move is to turn
this into a group structure, yet to be determined, and that's where
everyone comes in.

I've already created the "team members" section [0], where I added Justin
as a member (would like Amita and Jona to join their names there as well)
however, in order to continue, we need to chose which structure would fit
us better. You can also read our meeting logs where we talked a bit about
it [1]

[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
[1]
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...

[Mark Terranova]

> Hello all.
>
> A single person could be the advisor, yet, there is no way (not just due

time, but also due knowledge) that a single person can be running it all.
What is "it"?
> Since the beginning I've had success thanks to those who have been taking

time to help me and guide me through this, so the smartest move is to turn
this into a group structure, yet to be determined, and that's where
everyone comes in.
I don't know if getting folks to join a group to help "sort things" had
enough interest. Let alone will it be like Videos? (As in a plan was made,
got feedback, got direction from advisors,  workflow was done... Most of
those things are moot now, no attention is paid to these efforts folks
made.)
> I've already created the "team members" section [0], where I added Justin

as a member (would like Amita and Jona to join their names there as well)
however, in order to continue, we need to chose which structure would fit
us better. You can also read our meeting logs where we talked a bit about
it [1]
Fitting what? The Project? Diversity's Mission Statement? Where and what?
Assuming this means how to integrate diversity into Project (hoping that's
a goal.)

I am of opinion that funding is needed, or this is 'token effort' (sorry
for the pun) will basically be what we've had for years; the ability to do
outreach and/or inclusive events. And ask our local regions to fund them.

Money aside for a moment, we have given regions an extra task. I see
Diversity as able to teach/explain to our fellow Fedorans  the what/why/how
of the noble effort.

Let me be clear- this effort IS noble. I support it. Despite no funding and
shades of Model Minority stuff, this effort is acknowledgement that we have
diverse communities to draw from. As well as Fedora being able to look like
the pluralities we live in. (Think of it as compatibility, that's a good
thing.)
> [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
> [1]

https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...
> --
> tatica
> Maria Gracia Leandro
> http://www.tatica.org
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
> LinuxUser= 440285  GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
>
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[María Leandro]

Again:

Funding are handled by regions, there is an extensive discussion about it,
which goes out of the scope of Diversity team efforts. Please, direct your
complains about funding to the right thread.

2016-05-10 13:45 GMT-04:00 Mark Terranova :
> > Hello all.
> >
> > A single person could be the advisor, yet, there is no way (not just due
>
> time, but also due knowledge) that a single person can be running it all.
> What is "it"?
> > Since the beginning I've had success thanks to those who have been
>
> taking time to help me and guide me through this, so the smartest move is
> to turn this into a group structure, yet to be determined, and that's where
> everyone comes in.
> I don't know if getting folks to join a group to help "sort things" had
> enough interest. Let alone will it be like Videos? (As in a plan was made,
> got feedback, got direction from advisors,  workflow was done... Most of
> those things are moot now, no attention is paid to these efforts folks
> made.)
> > I've already created the "team members" section [0], where I added
>
> Justin as a member (would like Amita and Jona to join their names there as
> well) however, in order to continue, we need to chose which structure would
> fit us better. You can also read our meeting logs where we talked a bit
> about it [1]
> Fitting what? The Project? Diversity's Mission Statement? Where and what?
> Assuming this means how to integrate diversity into Project (hoping that's
> a goal.)
>
> I am of opinion that funding is needed, or this is 'token effort' (sorry
> for the pun) will basically be what we've had for years; the ability to do
> outreach and/or inclusive events. And ask our local regions to fund them.
>
> Money aside for a moment, we have given regions an extra task. I see
> Diversity as able to teach/explain to our fellow Fedorans  the what/why/how
> of the noble effort.
>
> Let me be clear- this effort IS noble. I support it. Despite no funding
> and shades of Model Minority stuff, this effort is acknowledgement that we
> have diverse communities to draw from. As well as Fedora being able to look
> like the pluralities we live in. (Think of it as compatibility, that's a
> good thing.)
> > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
> > [1]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...
> > --
> > tatica
> > Maria Gracia Leandro
> > http://www.tatica.org
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
> > LinuxUser= 440285  GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
> >
> > diversity mailing list
> > [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]
>
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:45:42AM -0700, Mark Terranova wrote:
> I am of opinion that funding is needed, or this is 'token effort' (sorry

We definitely _can_ fund specific things; we just have to know what
they are and plan for them. And we _actually are_. For example, in the
ongoing budget discussion, we've set aside a chunk for an Outreachy
intern — the first time we've planned that in advance rather than
approving it from (basically) slush fund.

As you've seen (and been part of!), the historical process has been to
allocate everything to Ambassadors in the regions, so this is new. I'd
also like to see the Ambassadors consider diversity as important in
regional spending, not something that needs to be funded separately and
centrally. If that's not working, we can and should plan for a separate
diversity budget for FY18. (We'll be working at that at Flock.)

[Mark Terranova]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Matthew Miller 
wrote:
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:45:42AM -0700, Mark Terranova wrote:
> > I am of opinion that funding is needed, or this is 'token effort' (sorry
>
> We definitely _can_ fund specific things; we just have to know what
> they are and plan for them. And we _actually are_. For example, in the
> ongoing budget discussion, we've set aside a chunk for an Outreachy
> intern — the first time we've planned that in advance rather than
> approving it from (basically) slush fund.

Great start :)
> As you've seen (and been part of!), the historical process has been to
> allocate everything to Ambassadors in the regions, so this is new.

Ty for the clarity, this makes sense, we are doing this in different way. I
can see why
> I'd
> also like to see the Ambassadors consider diversity as important in
> regional spending, not something that needs to be funded separately and
> centrally.

Agreed. I assumed this part of the Project would advise as needed (and
requested.)
> If that's not working, we can and should plan for a separate
> diversity budget for FY18. (We'll be working at that at Flock.)

Ty again for your response to my questions. You have given context, I
appreciate that.

-MD
> --
> Matthew Miller
>
> Fedora Project Leader
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[A. Mani]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Matthew Miller
 wrote:
> As you've seen (and been part of!), the historical process has been to
> allocate everything to Ambassadors in the regions, so this is new. I'd
> also like to see the Ambassadors consider diversity as important in
> regional spending, not something that needs to be funded separately and
> centrally. If that's not working, we can and should plan for a separate
> diversity budget for FY18. (We'll be working at that at Flock.)

Even if all ambassadors are trained in practical aspects of diversity,
understanding and playing an active role in policy implementations
will be difficult for them

In India, for example, there is much diversity in discrimination.

The most visible would be caste based discrimination (this results in
segregation, denial of resources and services). Even in universities
in cities it matters.

Would a college student from STEM be able to handle related diversity issues?

Not really expected of them.

Best

A. Mani

Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[María Leandro]

> In India, for example, there is much diversity in discrimination.

So as in LATAM, for example.
> Would a college student from STEM be able to handle related diversity
> issues?
>
> Not really expected of them.

You're right, the answer is no; yet, you're asking the wrong question. I
would put it like this:

Would a Fedora Ambassador should be able to handle related diversity
issues?

Then the answer is Yes. We, as a group (and I mean all the Fedora
community) should be prepared to deal with discrimination and face it,
that's why the diversity group is gonna be for. We are a team of educators
and spoke-persons that will work on making things smoother as inside our
community and so for our Fedora members.

[A. Mani]

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:36 PM, María Leandro
 wrote:
> Would a Fedora Ambassador should be able to handle related diversity issues?
>
> Then the answer is Yes. We, as a group (and I mean all the Fedora community)
> should be prepared to deal with discrimination and face it, that's why the
> diversity group is gonna be for. We are a team of educators and
> spoke-persons that will work on making things smoother as inside our
> community and so for our Fedora members.

OK, but if that much is to be required of ambassadors, we should also
look for more ambassadors with a social sciences background or have
special training modules for them.
The majority of ambassadors, I believe are from comp. sci/engg.
Available resources would need to be adapted for the purpose.
We will need to write a rough guide for best practices with links to
more detailed explanations.

Best

A. Mani

Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[A. Mani]

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:18 AM, A. Mani  wrote:
> OK, but if that much is to be required of ambassadors, we should also
> look for more ambassadors with a social sciences background or have
> special training modules for them.
> The majority of ambassadors, I believe are from comp. sci/engg.
> Available resources would need to be adapted for the purpose.
> We will need to write a rough guide for best practices with links to
> more detailed explanations.

Addendum: The diversity team will still have to oversee all the work.
That was my earlier point.

Best

A. Mani

Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[María Leandro]

> OK, but if that much is to be required of ambassadors, we should also
> look for more ambassadors with a social sciences background or have
> special training modules for them.

We have ambassadors that are lawyers, doctors, etc. It's not need to have
any prior training, yet, we want ambassadors who DO have this kind of
background to join the Diversity team, that's the full point of turning
this new assignment from a single-person task to a group of qualified
people.
> The majority of ambassadors, I believe are from comp. sci/engg.
> Available resources would need to be adapted for the purpose.
> We will need to write a rough guide for best practices with links to
> more detailed explanations.

Aye, but writing needs time, research needs time. Lets just all please
remember that Diversity is something new within Fedora, and we are slowly
getting things done, even if our learning curve has been pushed up due all
the attention we are receiving :)

[A. Mani]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 8:25 PM, María Leandro  wrote:
> [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
> [1]
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...

The diversity policy should be aimed at accommodating discriminated
categories of people.
This is not mentioned.

Best

A. Mani

Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[María Leandro]

I wrote a small statement for diversity, which I would be happy to expand:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity

One of the things that has me stalled is the different legislation that
each country and region has to address discrimination, so I might jump into
regional drafts of it to have a most accurate statement. We already
addressed some at NA, yet, regions like LATAM and APAC are being a bit more
complicated.

Diversity (the ideal) should be able to address legal statements to help
our contributors to cope with bullying, discrimination and even physical
bullying (which is covered in our CoC)

2016-05-10 13:57 GMT-04:00 A. Mani :
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 8:25 PM, María Leandro 
> wrote:
> > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
> > [1]
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...
>
> The diversity policy should be aimed at accommodating discriminated
> categories of people.
> This is not mentioned.
>
> Best
>
> A. Mani
>
> Prof(Miss) A. Mani
> CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
> HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
> Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
> http://about.me/logicamani
> sip:[e-mail]
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[A. Mani]

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:35 PM, María Leandro
 wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity
>
> One of the things that has me stalled is the different legislation that each
> country and region has to address discrimination, so I might jump into
> regional drafts of it to have a most accurate statement. We already
> addressed some at NA, yet, regions like LATAM and APAC are being a bit more
> complicated.
>
> Diversity (the ideal) should be able to address legal statements to help our
> contributors to cope with bullying, discrimination and even physical
> bullying (which is covered in our CoC)

We should not follow "country specific discrimination policies/laws".
Many multinational companies have universal policies.
Legally this would not be a problem in commonwealth countries
(Countries that were part of the former British empire)

My suggestion is to have a universal policy with supplementary country
specific notes (warnings).

Best

A. Mani

Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[Amita]

On 05/10/2016 08:25 PM, María Leandro wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> A single person could be the advisor, yet, there is no way (not just 
> due time, but also due knowledge) that a single person can be running 
> it all.
>
> Since the beginning I've had success thanks to those who have been 
> taking time to help me and guide me through this, so the smartest move 
> is to turn this into a group structure, yet to be determined, and 
> that's where everyone comes in.

Hi Maria,

This is nice, we all love you  :)
I have added my name there as well.

I would like to have more information on FWD plans, I know that's on 
your plate :) , so I will keep an eye.
I heard a lot of buzz about budgeting. An event without any budget is 
not an issue.
But, I remember we discussed about some FWD specific stickers or 
goodies, we may need some budget for that? or that should be done via 
opening ticket for regional ambassdors or that is not in plan anymore.

Regards,
Ami
> I've already created the "team members" section [0], where I added 
> Justin as a member (would like Amita and Jona to join their names 
> there as well) however, in order to continue, we need to chose which 
> structure would fit us better. You can also read our meeting logs 
> where we talked a bit about it [1]
>
> [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Diversity_Adviser#Team_Members
> [1] 
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-diversity/2016-05-10/diversity.2016...
>
> -- 
> tatica
> Maria Gracia Leandro
> http://www.tatica.org http://www.tatica.org/
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
> LinuxUser= 440285  GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
>
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]

[María Leandro]

> But, I remember we discussed about some FWD specific stickers or goodies,
> we may need some budget for that? or that should be done via opening ticket
> for regional ambassadors or that is not in plan anymore.

Yes, all budget goes through ambassadors since each one of us will be
hosting local events.

---

Mani, I like the idea of a general policy and then small add-ons for local
differences. I really like this idea, yet, lets remember we are advisers,
so we will only provide tools for those who need it.

[Remy DeCausemaker]

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:26 AM, María Leandro  wrote:
> > But, I remember we discussed about some FWD specific stickers or goodies,
> > we may need some budget for that? or that should be done via opening ticket
> > for regional ambassadors or that is not in plan anymore.

Keep me posted on any designs you may create for stickers. I am more
than happy to coordinate that process (similarly to how I'm
coordinating the "Fedora <3 Python" ordering for all the regions now.)

If we open a ticket with the design team to get the artwork started
early, we should have no problem getting some stickers ordered.

Happy to Help,
--RemyD.
> Yes, all budget goes through ambassadors since each one of us will be
> hosting local events.
>
> Mani, I like the idea of a general policy and then small add-ons for local
> differences. I really like this idea, yet, lets remember we are advisers, so
> we will only provide tools for those who need it.

[María Leandro]

NOTED! Will work on that this weekend!

Thx decause!

2016-05-11 11:14 GMT-04:00 Remy DeCausemaker :
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:26 AM, María Leandro 
> wrote:
> > > But, I remember we discussed about some FWD specific stickers or
>
> goodies,
> > > we may need some budget for that? or that should be done via opening
>
> ticket
> > > for regional ambassadors or that is not in plan anymore.
>
> Keep me posted on any designs you may create for stickers. I am more
> than happy to coordinate that process (similarly to how I'm
> coordinating the "Fedora <3 Python" ordering for all the regions now.)
>
> If we open a ticket with the design team to get the artwork started
> early, we should have no problem getting some stickers ordered.
>
> Happy to Help,
> --RemyD.
> > Yes, all budget goes through ambassadors since each one of us will be
> > hosting local events.
> >
> > Mani, I like the idea of a general policy and then small add-ons for
>
> local
> > differences. I really like this idea, yet, lets remember we are
>
> advisers, so
> > we will only provide tools for those who need it.
>
> --
> Remy DeCausemaker
> Fedora Community Lead & Council
>
> https://whatcanidoforfedora.org
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]