Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

hi,

A few queries regarding the Free media project:

-- These are the Free-media distributors as listed on the wiki page. Is
there anyone else, who has not yet added his/her name to the list?
 
Jasbir Singh 
Jones Joseph 
SiddharthUpmanyu  
SusmitShannigrahi 
VigneshSundaram 
AnkurSinha 
Rishikesh Sharma 
NehalDattani 
MehulPatel 
Shambo Bose 
Jatin 
Sunil Datta 
Rahul

-- I've checked up all the shipping addresses as given on the wiki for
the above. Had some questions regarding the same:

I've noticed, "To get the O.S., you need to visit in person and bring a
blank DVD." on a few of the shipping addresses. 

If I've understood correctly, the above is a requirement of the Local
Contacts project and *NOT* the free media project (It is optional under
the free media project). Please correct me if I'm wrong.


-- The Free media requests are not spread evenly across India
(obviously). Hence, some contributors (like me) only receive only one or
two requests from our regions. I can contribute more than that ( at
least 10-20 _locally_) on a monthly basis. On the other hand, I remember
reading someone mass producing media (pressing to get rates as low as
2-3 rs a media??) and hence having extra copies that are going waste
(not being used). Hence, there is untapped potential and also unfilled
requests. Can anyone think of a way to use the resource? 

-- Does anyone have knowledge of Ubuntu's project. We could take some
points from there (if its okay to do so, that is). I've *heard* its very
effective. 

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>  I've noticed, "To get the O.S., you need to visit in person
> and bring a
>  blank DVD." on a few of the shipping addresses. 
I have a somewhat different question - what would it take for us to
strengthen the LocalContact way of doing things and, help build local
systems of support ?


-- 
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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/05/2009 11:09 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:

>  -- The Free media requests are not spread evenly across India
>  (obviously). Hence, some contributors (like me) only receive only one or
>  two requests from our regions. I can contribute more than that ( at
>  least 10-20 _locally_) on a monthly basis. On the other hand, I remember
>  reading someone mass producing media (pressing to get rates as low as
>  2-3 rs a media??) and hence having extra copies that are going waste
>  (not being used). Hence, there is untapped potential and also unfilled
>  requests. Can anyone think of a way to use the resource?  
I haven't heard of anyone doing good quality media replication for 2 Rs.
If you find specific details, do let us know. What we try to do is to
fund the media replication costs for the media that is useful for events
and ambassadors and provide them with the means to reach out to more
people. Funding free media efforts is problematic not because of the
media replication costs but the distribution costs. More on this below.
>  
>  -- Does anyone have knowledge of Ubuntu's project. We could take some
>  points from there (if its okay to do so, that is). I've *heard* its very
>  effective.  
It is effective but it is also funded in a very different way. I think,
you are missing the bigger picture here. Canonical, which is the
privately funded startup behind Ubuntu wanted to reach more users in a
crowded space of multiple distributions about five years back and spend
millions of dollars on free shipments. While that has certainly proven
effective atleast in the short run, I doubt we are going to follow that
model. Red Hat, the primary sponsor behind Fedora is a public company
with share holders and if money is going to be spend, it has to be done
in a sustainable way. Free media shipments essentially relies on the
community to help itself by supporting one another voluntarily. This is
by nature, a different scale of operations. If anyone has ideas on doing
it better keeping in mind the limited budget, feel free to share it with
us.

Rahul

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Mon, 2009-07-06 at 03:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 07/05/2009 11:09 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  
>  > -- The Free media requests are not spread evenly across India
>  > (obviously). Hence, some contributors (like me) only receive only one or
>  > two requests from our regions. I can contribute more than that ( at
>  > least 10-20 _locally_) on a monthly basis. On the other hand, I remember
>  > reading someone mass producing media (pressing to get rates as low as
>  > 2-3 rs a media??) and hence having extra copies that are going waste
>  > (not being used). Hence, there is untapped potential and also unfilled
>  > requests. Can anyone think of a way to use the resource? 
>  
>  I haven't heard of anyone doing good quality media replication for 2 Rs.
>  If you find specific details, do let us know.  
Oh.. I thought I had read it on the mailing list itself. Maybe I just
imagined it. Sorry.

>  What we try to do is to
>  fund the media replication costs for the media that is useful for events
>  and ambassadors and provide them with the means to reach out to more
>  people. Funding free media efforts is problematic not because of the
>  media replication costs but the distribution costs. More on this below.
>  >  
I understand this. I do have a suggestion regarding shipments. <Below>
The problem is that even if you send me 50 copies of media, I may not be
able to use them all (because of the shipment costs and *low* number of
requests from nearby regions). Events and install fests happen only once
or twice a semester. I've been in the media programme for a while now
and I make it a point to go through every request to see if I can
service it. (the ticket system makes this much easier. Thanks Susmit).
There have been times where people have not been able to acquire media
even though they've tried two months in a row. Since the folks on the
requesting side are unaware of the issues that we have to face, all they
think is "it's been 2 months and they haven't been able to send me
media". I hope you get the drift. 

>  > -- Does anyone have knowledge of Ubuntu's project. We could
> take some
>  > points from there (if its okay to do so, that is). I've *heard* its very
>  > effective. 
>  
>  It is effective but it is also funded in a very different way. I think,
>  you are missing the bigger picture here. Canonical, which is the
>  privately funded startup behind Ubuntu wanted to reach more users in a
>  crowded space of multiple distributions about five years back and spend
>  millions of dollars on free shipments. While that has certainly proven
>  effective atleast in the short run, I doubt we are going to follow that
>  model. Red Hat, the primary sponsor behind Fedora is a public company
>  with share holders and if money is going to be spend, it has to be done
>  in a sustainable way. Free media shipments essentially relies on the
>  community to help itself by supporting one another voluntarily. This is
>  by nature, a different scale of operations. If anyone has ideas on doing
>  it better keeping in mind the limited budget, feel free to share it with
>  us. 
>  Rahul
>   
Thank you for the clarification Rahul. I'm still too young to have
thought of what you mentioned above on my own :)

Here's the suggestion regarding the free media programme. It is **very**
far fetched and I haven't yet found out about the viability of this
method. Please do not crucify me for this ;)

Is it possible to partner with a mail service provider. I don't know if
"partner" is the right word (maybe "collaborate"?), but I'm
hoping
you'll get the idea. Here is a short description of my thought stream. 

- we partner with a mail service provider , say "foo bar".
- we give "foo bar" all the mail that Fedora India sends/receives
("exclusive rights" it's called I think), which includes dvd shipments
on the free media programme, event packages, event reports. We can even
have a clause that enables folks sending us blank dvds by mail to use
this service.
- I'm guessing this will be something like a "mass shipment"
"contract"
sorta thing that can enable us to get good shipment rates. I'm sure that
the amount that we, the Fedora India community, spends (from sanctioned
funds and from what the community members spend voluntarily in mailing
stuff) is an attractive package for a shipment company. And its
advertisement for them on every mail we send to every corner of the
country. 
- better shipment rates will help the situation a lot.Especially in
unifying the media contribution since a contributor from any part of the
country will be able to service a request from any location. 

Again, it's just a thought stream. I am not as well versed in the
processes as you (the seniors) are. I'm just trying to lessen the gap
between the supplier and one who demands. 

(/me wishes dvds could be sent via email itself)

I know that "blue dart" provides such "service". The Australian high
commission in Delhi has such a "contract" with them.

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/06/2009 09:20 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:

>  
>  I know that "blue dart" provides such "service". The Australian high
>  commission in Delhi has such a "contract" with them. 
The amount of couriers we are going to be sending is lower than them and
it would end up costing a bomb shell. I would gladly outsource the
couriering/media replication etc to a separate agency if they charge
reasonable rates and would take care of it entirely. I haven't found one.

Rahul

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 22:04 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  On 07/06/2009 09:20 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  
>  > 
>  > I know that "blue dart" provides such "service". The Australian
> high
>  > commission in Delhi has such a "contract" with them.
>  
>  The amount of couriers we are going to be sending is lower than them and
>  it would end up costing a bomb shell. I would gladly outsource the
>  couriering/media replication etc to a separate agency if they charge
>  reasonable rates and would take care of it entirely. I haven't found one.
>  
>  Rahul
>   
That's sad to hear. But as I had mentioned, I hadn't worked out the
practicality of the idea. Guess we'll need to think up more ideas. 

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Rahul
Sundaram<sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>  On 07/06/2009 09:20 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>
> >
> > I know that "blue dart" provides such "service". The Australian
> high
> > commission in Delhi has such a "contract" with them.
>
>  The amount of couriers we are going to be sending is lower than them and
>  it would end up costing a bomb shell. I would gladly outsource the
>  couriering/media replication etc to a separate agency if they charge
>  reasonable rates and would take care of it entirely. I haven't found one. 
In most of the discussions around FreeMedia, the thread eventually
boils down to "there are more requests than there are volunteers to
service those requests and, the costs of courier are exponentially
high". How about looking at the problem in terms of folks are
requesting for media (note the absence of the the phrase "free of
cost") and, we need to think up a way to route the media to these
folks ? Or, in other words, how many routes can we think up that would
get the media to them ?


-- 
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http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[susmit shannigrahi]

>  In most of the discussions around FreeMedia, the thread eventually
>  boils down to "there are more requests than there are volunteers to
>  service those requests and, the costs of courier are exponentially
>  high". How about looking at the problem in terms of folks are
>  requesting for media (note the absence of the the phrase "free of
>  cost") and, we need to think up a way to route the media to these
>  folks ? Or, in other words, how many routes can we think up that would
>  get the media to them ? 
The easiest option will be to keep a field like:

* I want to pay the postage.
* I don't want to pay the postage.

But I am not sure if that would be allowed as per policy.
Thanks.

-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=============================================
ssh
0x86DD170A
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=============================================

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:56 AM, susmit
shannigrahi<thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>  The easiest option will be to keep a field like:
>
>  * I want to pay the postage.
>  * I don't want to pay the postage. 
That's one route. I am sure that there are more than one way to get to
a solution for this problem. A query I had was - is it possible to
have a geographical representation of the FreeMedia requests ? Perhaps
we could try and get some LocalContacts going as close as possible.


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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[susmit shannigrahi]

>  That's one route. I am sure that there are more than one way to
> get to
>  a solution for this problem. A query I had was - is it possible to
>  have a geographical representation of the FreeMedia requests ? 
Technically, kids play. ;)
But can we log the browser data without consent from user/requester?

>  Perhaps
>  we could try and get some LocalContacts going as close as possible. 
But we have a *lot* of LocalContacts, but does that fulfill any of the
freemedia requests?
I have not seen any.


Thanks.


-- 
Regards,
Susmit.

=============================================
ssh
0x86DD170A
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=============================================

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:09 AM, susmit
shannigrahi<thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > That's one route. I am sure that there are more than one way
> to get to
> > a solution for this problem. A query I had was - is it possible to
> > have a geographical representation of the FreeMedia requests ?
>
>  Technically, kids play. ;)
>  But can we log the browser data without consent from user/requester? 
Which brings up a somewhat different problem - without having the
means to have a geographical view of the requests, it would be
difficult to formulate an action. Looking at the places which generate
the most number of requests would allow us to figure out how best to
triage. There are two ways at looking at a solution - [1] the ultimate
and perfect solution and, [2] the optimal solution that allows the
highest number of people to receive the media they requested.

> > Perhaps
> > we could try and get some LocalContacts going as close as possible.
>
>  But we have a *lot* of LocalContacts, but does that fulfill any of the
>  freemedia requests?
>  I have not seen any. 
Precisely. So, "why can't the Local Contacts be active ?" Should we be
asking them this question ?


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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Rangeen Basu]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:09 AM, susmit
shannigrahi<thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  But we have a *lot* of LocalContacts, but does that fulfill any of the
>  freemedia requests?
>  I have not seen any. 
Very true. Local contacts can serve requests which originate from
within a rang of a few kilometres. Anything beyond that boils down to
the same postage issue. Even the next city is out of reach for local
contacts. People are not willing to travel and collect the media
themselves. It is much easier for them to obtain a pirated Windows CD.

One alternative is to use VPP [1] . If we can keep some option as
Susmit suggested, "I want to pay" or "I don't want to pay" and if
free
media is not "free as in free beer", then we can send the media
through VPP and collect the money from India Post once the media is
delivered. I am not sure though what will happen if the delivery is
refused. According to India Post site, it will be returned to the
sender and the sender needs to pay any "outstanding dues", not sure
what outstanding dues mean but that can be found out easily. Once a
freemedia request is accepted, the acceptor can mail the requester and
take his confirmation before mailing the disc through VPP. In this way
the chances of denial during delivery will be reduced a lot. The
requester will have to pay approximately Rs 50 (cost of DVD +
postage).

[1] http://www.indiapost.gov.in/Netscape/ValuePayableArticles.html

-- 
Regards
Rangeen Basu Roy Chowdhury
Fedora Ambassador
sherry151(a)gmail.com

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Rangeen Basu<sherry151(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>  Very true. Local contacts can serve requests which originate from
>  within a rang of a few kilometres. Anything beyond that boils down to
>  the same postage issue. Even the next city is out of reach for local
>  contacts. People are not willing to travel and collect the media
>  themselves. It is much easier for them to obtain a pirated Windows CD. 
I tend to think that I have had enough talk about "Windows CD"
(pirated is a singularly unfit term to use for software) or, "other
Linux distributions". From what I recall, the LocalContacts was an
experiment to ensure the following:

[1] local outreach happens
[2] a locally available support system is incubated

I am yet to see a positive outcome of either goals. Which is why I had
the query about whether it is possible for the local contact to get a
geographic profile of requests.

If we do not have enough local contacts to be present across every
city we are receiving requests from, our question should be "why not"
and, we should start thinking about what can be done. If we have
existing LocalContacts not providing media at-cost, our questions
should be "why can't they" and, we should start a conversation about
how they could be doing this.

>  One alternative is to use VPP [1] . 
As much as I like everyone to receive a media. I guess that just bulk
producing media to continue shipments is not going to be a good thing.
There should be ways and means to outreach. For example, there are
UserGroups a plenty - can we figure out a way to tie into them as well
as have them accountable for shipping the media. I know PuneLUG does
an awesomely good job of doing so, how about other UGs ? The UGs at
institutes for example - does their charter allow them to ship media
at-cost ?


-- 
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http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Rangeen Basu]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM, sankarshan<foss.mailinglists(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Rangeen
> Basu<sherry151(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  As much as I like everyone to receive a media. I guess that just bulk
>  producing media to continue shipments is not going to be a good thing. 
Extremely sorry if my thoughts were not clear but I wasn't tlaking
about bulk producing media rather I was talking about a way freemedia
contributors can send media to the requesters. Normally freemedia
contributors would buy media , burn them and pot them. I would be nice
if this cost could e borne by the requesters, if not in full then at
least a part of it. If there is a general consensus in this regard
then the freemedia contributors can start using this method.

>  There should be ways and means to outreach. For example, there are
>  UserGroups a plenty - can we figure out a way to tie into them as well
>  as have them accountable for shipping the media. I know PuneLUG does
>  an awesomely good job of doing so, how about other UGs ? The UGs at
>  institutes for example - does their charter allow them to ship media
>  at-cost ? 
This is obviously a way but there is still the problem of postage
cost. The user group members are nothing more than volunteers and at
institutes, mere students. How can distribution of freemedia by a LUG
be funded? I know that the Institute LUGs do have the Institute as a
source of fund but that is not enough. Plus a lot of requests from the
institute students need to be served and after that little is left to
send out.Coming to shipping media at-cost, I think what I said about
freemedia contributors above holds for UGs as well. They obviously
can. But a general consensus is required and a message needs to be
propagated that "freemedia is not free as in free beer". If the
requesters agree, the contributors agree and the parent body i.e the
freemedia managing committee agrees then there will be very little
hindrance.

P.S: My thought about using VPP is only a way of collecting the money
and is probably the cheapest way other than wire transfer, which is
probably not feasible. I would also like to know what other people
think of this.


-- 
Regards
Rangeen Basu Roy Chowdhury
Fedora Ambassador
sherry151(a)gmail.com

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 09:36 +0530, Rangeen Basu wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:09 AM, susmit
>  shannigrahi<thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > But we have a *lot* of LocalContacts, but does that fulfill any of the
>  > freemedia requests?
>  > I have not seen any.
>  
>  Very true. Local contacts can serve requests which originate from
>  within a rang of a few kilometres. Anything beyond that boils down to
>  the same postage issue. Even the next city is out of reach for local
>  contacts. People are not willing to travel and collect the media
>  themselves. It is much easier for them to obtain a pirated Windows CD.
>  
>  One alternative is to use VPP [1] . If we can keep some option as
>  Susmit suggested, "I want to pay" or "I don't want to pay" and if
> free
>  media is not "free as in free beer", then we can send the media
>  through VPP and collect the money from India Post once the media is
>  delivered. I am not sure though what will happen if the delivery is
>  refused. According to India Post site, it will be returned to the
>  sender and the sender needs to pay any "outstanding dues", not sure
>  what outstanding dues mean but that can be found out easily. Once a
>  freemedia request is accepted, the acceptor can mail the requester and
>  take his confirmation before mailing the disc through VPP. In this way
>  the chances of denial during delivery will be reduced a lot. The
>  requester will have to pay approximately Rs 50 (cost of DVD +
>  postage).
>  
>  [1] http://www.indiapost.gov.in/Netscape/ValuePayableArticles.html
>   
hi,

This is a good suggestion, but I think we'll end up having a lot of
refusals :| . 

Rahul said that the number of media requests we service is comparitively
small. I'd like to know approximately how much this is:

@Rahul, what is to max number of free media requests that can be
serviced from "official" funds?

@others, how many requests have you serviced by *mail" (free media or
otherwise).

Since mailing media from anywhere to anywhere costs 25 rs, all media
being sent from one "free media center" (only one) will be the addition
of all the above counts. I'm hoping the number will be large enough to
"outsource the couriering/media replication etc to a separate agency if
they charge reasonable rates and would take care of it entirely"


-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 09:48 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Rangeen
> Basu<sherry151(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>  > Very true. Local contacts can serve requests which originate from
>  > within a rang of a few kilometres. Anything beyond that boils down to
>  > the same postage issue. Even the next city is out of reach for local
>  > contacts. People are not willing to travel and collect the media
>  > themselves. It is much easier for them to obtain a pirated Windows CD.
>  
>  I tend to think that I have had enough talk about "Windows CD"
>  (pirated is a singularly unfit term to use for software) or, "other
>  Linux distributions". From what I recall, the LocalContacts was an
>  experiment to ensure the following:
>  
>  [1] local outreach happens
>  [2] a locally available support system is incubated
>  
>  I am yet to see a positive outcome of either goals. Which is why I had
>  the query about whether it is possible for the local contact to get a
>  geographic profile of requests.
>  
>  If we do not have enough local contacts to be present across every
>  city we are receiving requests from, our question should be "why not" 
This is because everyone that requests a media does not turn into a
local contact. The media is not following the "receiver becomes donor"
scheme that we want it to. 

>  and, we should start thinking about what can be done. If we have
>  existing LocalContacts not providing media at-cost, our questions
>  should be "why can't they" and, we should start a conversation about
>  how they could be doing this. 
Local contacts are usually students who have a fixed pocket money. You
can do the math :)

>  
>  > One alternative is to use VPP [1] .
>  
>  As much as I like everyone to receive a media. I guess that just bulk
>  producing media to continue shipments is not going to be a good thing.
>  There should be ways and means to outreach. For example, there are
>  UserGroups a plenty - can we figure out a way to tie into them as well
>  as have them accountable for shipping the media. I know PuneLUG does
>  an awesomely good job of doing so, how about other UGs ? The UGs at
>  institutes for example - does their charter allow them to ship media
>  at-cost ?
>  
>   
As Rangeen mentions in his reply, UGs are merely students. Again , same
equation. Another variable that messes this up is that Fedora isn't the
only distribution around. Since they are Linux UGs and not Fedora UGs,
getting people to distribute fedora dvds is difficult. They all support
their different distributions and fundamentally want the same thing we
do, for them. There's a hefty discussion as to which distro we are going
to use in the install fest. Its not always Fedora. 

A query: Are all the local contacts members of the free media list,
rather, do they all check to see if there are requests that they can
service or is this done by somebody (who assigns such media requests to
local contacts)??

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>  This is because everyone that requests a media does not turn into a
>  local contact. The media is not following the "receiver becomes donor"
>  scheme that we want it to. 
We never did visualize the "receiver becomes donor" way of paying it
forward. The idea was to de-lineate the LocalContacts from the "free"
FreeMedia aspect. Which in plain terms means that the LCs should be
able to project that they are charging for the media.

>  Local contacts are usually students who have a fixed pocket money.
> You
>  can do the math :) 
So, do I take it that the students will not want to set up a system
whereby they can charge for media and, keep a margin for themselves ?
That's a paradox really. I would have thought that given the volume of
demand and scarcity of supply, it should have been a reasonably nice
opportunity.

>  As Rangeen mentions in his reply, UGs are merely students. Again ,
> same
>  equation. Another variable that messes this up is that Fedora isn't the
>  only distribution around. Since they are Linux UGs and not Fedora UGs,
>  getting people to distribute fedora dvds is difficult. They all support
>  their different distributions and fundamentally want the same thing we
>  do, for them. There's a hefty discussion as to which distro we are going
>  to use in the install fest. Its not always Fedora. 
Let me rephrase the question (assuming that neither Rangeen nor you
did get the drift) - can UGs actually be ready to set up a system
whereby they charge for media when requested and, keep the margin in
the UG account ? For example, http://plug.org.in/software.php - is
this model difficult to replicate across other UGs and, especially
institute UGs ?

>  A query: Are all the local contacts members of the free media list,
>  rather, do they all check to see if there are requests that they can
>  service or is this done by somebody (who assigns such media requests to
>  local contacts)?? 
I don't have the answer to that off-hand, but I can check around.


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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Rangeen Basu<sherry151(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM,
> sankarshan<foss.mailinglists(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Rangeen Basu<sherry151(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > As much as I like everyone to receive a media. I guess that just bulk
> > producing media to continue shipments is not going to be a good thing.
>
>  Extremely sorry if my thoughts were not clear but I wasn't tlaking
>  about bulk producing media rather I was talking about a way freemedia
>  contributors can send media to the requesters. Normally freemedia
>  contributors would buy media , burn them and pot them. I would be nice
>  if this cost could e borne by the requesters, if not in full then at
>  least a part of it. If there is a general consensus in this regard
>  then the freemedia contributors can start using this method. 
It might sound heretic, but here's what I see happening - we already
provide Freedom as a feature :) giving away the media for free (ie.
no-cost) is not helping us make much headway. Freedom and free-of-cost
are not getting appreciated and, we seem to be ending up with more
freeloading than we can handle. The budget is finite (and, it is
minute) so, we simply cannot go on pushing money into the game.


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Fwd:Re: [Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Amirtham purendra raman bala]

 With Love B.A p Raman Original message From:sankarshan< foss.mailinglists(a)gmail.com
>Date: 08 July 09 11:21:08Subject:Re: [FedoraIndia] Queries regarding the Free media
project in IndiaTo: fedoraindia(a)redhat.comOn Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Rangeen Basu
wrote: > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:48 AM, sankarshan wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009
at 9:36 AM, Rangeen Basu wrote: >> >> >> As much as I like everyone to
receive a media. I guess that just bulk >> producing media to continue shipments is
not going to be a good thing. > > Extremely sorry if my thoughts were not clear but
I wasn't tlaking > about bulk producing media rather I was talking about a way
freemedia > contributors can send media to the requesters. Normally freemedia >
contributors would buy media , burn them and pot them. I would be nice > if this cost
could e borne by the requesters, if not in full then at > least a part of it. If there
is a general consensus in this regard > then the freemedia contributors can sta
 rt using this method.It might sound heretic, but here's what I see happening  we
already provide Freedom as a feature :) giving away the media for free (ie. nocost) is not
helping us make much headway. Freedom and freeofcost are not getting appreciated and, we
seem to be ending up with more freeloading than we can handle. The budget is finite (and,
it is minute) so, we simply cannot go on pushing money into the game.
http://www.gutenberg.net  Fine literature digitally republished http://www.plos.org 
Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org  Flexible copyright for creative
work Fedoraindia mailing list Fedoraindia(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedoraindia

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 07/08/2009 10:31 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  This is a good suggestion, but I think we'll end up having a lot
> of
>  refusals :| . 
>  
>  Rahul said that the number of media requests we service is comparitively
>  small. I'd like to know approximately how much this is:
>  
>  @Rahul, what is to max number of free media requests that can be
>  serviced from "official" funds? 
We don't use the funds for free media. We send bulk media (100 or 200
DVD's say) for local point of contacts who then redistribute it to
ambassadors or free media project in their local area. This works for
major cities. We also send media + other goodies for free software
events organized by the ambassadors or other Fedora contributors as well.

Rahul

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:15 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Ankur
> Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>  > This is because everyone that requests a media does not turn into a
>  > local contact. The media is not following the "receiver becomes donor"
>  > scheme that we want it to.
>  
>  We never did visualize the "receiver becomes donor" way of paying it
>  forward. The idea was to de-lineate the LocalContacts from the "free"
>  FreeMedia aspect. Which in plain terms means that the LCs should be
>  able to project that they are charging for the media. 
I don't understand the last sentence. "project that they are charging
for the media" meaning?

>  
>  > Local contacts are usually students who have a fixed pocket money. You
>  > can do the math :)
>  
>  So, do I take it that the students will not want to set up a system
>  whereby they can charge for media and, keep a margin for themselves ?
>  That's a paradox really. I would have thought that given the volume of
>  demand and scarcity of supply, it should have been a reasonably nice
>  opportunity.
>  
>  > As Rangeen mentions in his reply, UGs are merely students. Again , same
>  > equation. Another variable that messes this up is that Fedora isn't the
>  > only distribution around. Since they are Linux UGs and not Fedora UGs,
>  > getting people to distribute fedora dvds is difficult. They all support
>  > their different distributions and fundamentally want the same thing we
>  > do, for them. There's a hefty discussion as to which distro we are going
>  > to use in the install fest. Its not always Fedora.
>  
>  Let me rephrase the question (assuming that neither Rangeen nor you
>  did get the drift) - can UGs actually be ready to set up a system
>  whereby they charge for media when requested and, keep the margin in
>  the UG account ? For example, http://plug.org.in/software.php - is
>  this model difficult to replicate across other UGs and, especially
>  institute UGs ?
>   
I do get the drift. I understand what you're saying. Here's a
clarification:

Any decision taken by the LUG has to be consented upon by the majority.
The majority here has a stand that says "we will not charge for
ANYTHING". Its a different matter altogether that the majority is not
involved in activities that require finance (ie mailing media etc.).
What you're saying (the example of PLUG etc.) has already been discussed
since the little extra that we collect can be used for any events etc.
that we plan. However, i haven't gotten a positive response (yet).

>  > A query: Are all the local contacts members of the free media
> list,
>  > rather, do they all check to see if there are requests that they can
>  > service or is this done by somebody (who assigns such media requests to
>  > local contacts)??
>  
>  I don't have the answer to that off-hand, but I can check around.
>   
okay, thanks.

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:15 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This is because everyone that requests a media does not turn into a
> > > local contact. The media is not following the "receiver becomes
> donor"
> > > scheme that we want it to.
> >
> > We never did visualize the "receiver becomes donor" way of paying it
> > forward. The idea was to de-lineate the LocalContacts from the "free"
> > FreeMedia aspect. Which in plain terms means that the LCs should be
> > able to project that they are charging for the media.
>
>  I don't understand the last sentence. "project that they are charging
>  for the media" meaning? 
The LocalContacts should be able to represent with clarity that they
are/would be charging for the media is probably an apt way to phrase
that sentence.

/sankarshan

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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 13:26 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Ankur
> Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 11:15 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> > This is because everyone that requests a media does not turn into a
>  >> > local contact. The media is not following the "receiver becomes
> donor"
>  >> > scheme that we want it to.
>  >>
>  >> We never did visualize the "receiver becomes donor" way of paying it
>  >> forward. The idea was to de-lineate the LocalContacts from the "free"
>  >> FreeMedia aspect. Which in plain terms means that the LCs should be
>  >> able to project that they are charging for the media.
>  >
>  > I don't understand the last sentence. "project that they are charging
>  > for the media" meaning?
>  
>  The LocalContacts should be able to represent with clarity that they
>  are/would be charging for the media is probably an apt way to phrase
>  that sentence.
>  
>  /sankarshan
>   
The essential clarification needed is whether they would charge only the
cost of media + postage or would there also be a "service charge"?

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[sankarshan]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ankur Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:

>  The essential clarification needed is whether they would charge only
> the
>  cost of media + postage or would there also be a "service charge"? 
I do not see a reason for them not to have a margin of service cost
built into the price. As long as they remain accountable (ie. are
willing to be providing media replacements etc should the media be
bad), there is no harm in running this as a profit making initiative.


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[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Ankur Sinha]

On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 14:02 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ankur
> Sinha<sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>  > The essential clarification needed is whether they would charge only the
>  > cost of media + postage or would there also be a "service charge"?
>  
>  I do not see a reason for them not to have a margin of service cost
>  built into the price. As long as they remain accountable (ie. are
>  willing to be providing media replacements etc should the media be
>  bad), there is no harm in running this as a profit making initiative. 
hi,

I've written a draft to the LUG seniors here regarding this. However,
the margin that we receive will be used for the LUG's events etc. and
not any profit. 


I'd prefer if Local Contacts did not use this as a profit making venture
(charge only media and posting costs). But that's just my view on the
subject. 

-- 
regards,

Ankur

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Siddharth Upmanyu]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 14:02 +0530, sankarshan wrote:
>  > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Ankur Sinha&lt;sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > > The essential clarification needed is whether they would charge only
>  the
>  > > cost of media + postage or would there also be a "service charge"?
>  >
>  > I do not see a reason for them not to have a margin of service cost
>  > built into the price. As long as they remain accountable (ie. are
>  > willing to be providing media replacements etc should the media be
>  > bad), there is no harm in running this as a profit making initiative.
>
>  hi,
>
>  I've written a draft to the LUG seniors here regarding this. However,
>  the margin that we receive will be used for the LUG's events etc. and
>  not any profit.
>
>
>  I'd prefer if Local Contacts did not use this as a profit making venture
>  (charge only media and posting costs). But that's just my view on the
>  subject.
>
>  --
>  regards,
>
>  Ankur
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Fedora-india mailing list
>  Fedora-india(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-india
>  
Hi All,

wanted to add to the points where we are talking about the ''real''
problems
of not being able to conduct a ''successful'' free-media program... the
biggest one stays : we are not organized... we have all the people (lot more
to start off) we have resources.. (Rahul and Sankarshan have mentioned far
to often) but we remain unorganized.. weekly meetings didnt worked (not as
expected).. mailing lists receive fragmented response (i'll also find a
hiding place for these :-) )

We need a working group to handle Free-media .. a core committee that meets
often and they in turn coordinate at their level (regional or volume)

Suggestions?

Regards
Siddharth

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[A. Mani]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Siddharth Upmanyu<siddharth(a)techbugs.org> wrote:
>  wanted to add to the points where we are talking about the
> ''real'' problems
>  of not being able to conduct a ''successful'' free-media program... the
>  biggest one stays : we are not organized... we have all the people (lot more
>  to start off) we have resources.. (Rahul and Sankarshan have mentioned far
>  to often) but we remain unorganized.. weekly meetings didnt worked (not as
>  expected).. mailing lists receive fragmented response (i'll also find a
>  hiding place for these :-) ) 

Can you post the detailed region-wise FM statistics?

I can analyse that and write a short report

Best

A. Mani


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http://amani.topcities.com
http://www.logicamani.co.cc

[Fedora-India] Queries regarding the Free media project in India

[Siddharth Upmanyu]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Mani A <a.mani.cms(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Siddharth
> Upmanyu&lt;siddharth(a)techbugs.org&gt;
>  wrote:
>  > wanted to add to the points where we are talking about the ''real''
>  problems
>  > of not being able to conduct a ''successful'' free-media program...
> the
>  > biggest one stays : we are not organized... we have all the people (lot
>  more
>  > to start off) we have resources.. (Rahul and Sankarshan have mentioned
>  far
>  > to often) but we remain unorganized.. weekly meetings didnt worked (not
>  as
>  > expected).. mailing lists receive fragmented response (i'll also find a
>  > hiding place for these :-) )
>
>
>  Can you post the detailed region-wise FM statistics?
>
>  I can analyse that and write a short report
>
>  Best
>
>  A. Mani
>
>
>  --
>  A. Mani
>  ASL, CLC,  AMS, CMS
>  http://amani.topcities.com
>  http://www.logicamani.co.cc
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Fedora-india mailing list
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>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-india
>  
I guess any one can extract the details city wise from the tickets , please
contact Susmit he is the point of contact for the New FM process

Regards
Siddharth