So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
Mo Duffy might be the right person to ask about this, but one approach would be to look at each of these cases, and figure out what we'd ideally *like* the workflow to be. Don't bother worrying about how much work it will take to make it happen, this is just about identifying or brainstorming an ideal situation. We can break it down into work details later! :-)
Here's what I've tried to ask/answer for each question:
* Who's trying to accomplish the task? * What are they trying to do? * What do they currently have to do to accomplish that task? * In an ideal world, what would they do instead? (Forget about superpowers for now.) ;-) * How much of a win is it? (Huge, medium, or tiny?)
* Fedora contributors
* I want to attend the next Fedora Infrastructure team meeting on IRC -- when does it happen?
RIGHT NOW: (1) Find their wiki page, look for meeting time, convert UTC to my timezone. (2) Find someone in IRC who knows, and ask.
SHINY FUTURE: Go to one-stop calendar page, choose a filter by team (Infrastructure) and type (weekly IRC meeting) -- results are automatically in my timezone. (Medium/small)
* I want to know when the #fedora-meeting room is free, and put in a reservation when I find an open time.
RIGHT NOW: Find the meeting room wiki page, convert UTC to timezone, edit a complex table with footnotes to make a reservation.
SHINY FUTURE: Go to one-stop calendar page, choose a filter by type (weekly IRC meeting) and room. Read the schedule, which auto displays in my timezone, decide on an addition, and click "Add IRC weekly meeting to room" to make a reservation. (Huge)
* I want to see a list of important dates like string and feature freezes for the next release.
RIGHT NOW: Find the schedule wiki page, jump to detailed schedules if needed, find key tasks or detailed schedule for my team.
SHINY FUTURE: Go to one-stop calendar page, choose a filter by team if applicable, then by type (release task). (Small)
* I want to add an event to the Fedora events calendar and have that entry kick off other things like an eventbox or media request in a Trac.
RIGHT NOW: Find the events page. Edit the wiki page (large, big tables). Email a bunch of people or go to Trac instances and manually enter tickets to get stuff done.
SHINY FUTURE: Go to one-stop calendar page, choose an easy "Add an event" link. If I'm an Ambassador I get extra fields that allow me to request media and event support. Behind the scenes, tickets are filed for that stuff. (Huge)
* General public / Fedora user
* I want to know when the next Fedora release comes out.
RIGHT NOW: Find the schedule wiki page, read GA date (what's a GA?).
SHINY FUTURE: Click easy to find "Schedule for Fedora <N+1>" to see this table. (Small)
* I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geographic region next month.
RIGHT NOW: Locate events page, find my geo link, read events.
SHINY FUTURE: Go to one-stop calendar page, filter by type (Public event) and region (my geo).
* Add more here...
Note that some of these start shading into the areas that Hiemanshu wants to cover in his GSoC project. So I'd REALLY, REALLY like it if he and/or Juan (nushio) could be at one of our meetings to discuss, or we can set up a special time to do that. Just need some word back from them...
On Tue, 31 May 2011 17:25:46 -0400 "Paul W. Frields" stickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
...snip...
Great use cases!
- Add more here...
I'd like to publish and calendar of all scheduled upcoming planned infrastructure outages. Folks could then subscribe to this via rss/ical/whatever and see easily if there's an outage coming and when.
I'd like to publish a 'infrastructure events' type of calendar, seperate from the above thats things that are not outages, but may need notice to other team members or coordination of them.
In the event someone (I don't seem to have time these days :) starts fedora-classroom back up, it would be nice to have a schedule a upcoming classes and titles and intros.
Just some more thoughts...
kevin
Hola!
This is one of the things (or ideas) that we where talking about at Fudcon Panamá.
Fedora is a group that has so many different people that people tent to get dispersed easily, or even doesn't have to organize their own time. One of the ideas that we thought that we need to apply to increase our Project (and all teams) is to have tools that can let people not only organize their task, but also know what's happening around them.
I would recomend not to focus on specific things to organize, but to add a plan to let people organize and share what they do. At the end, integration between task will let more people know what's happening and see task that they can solve... but having a strong idea of how time is used.
Working with several CRM, one of the most usefull things I got was a Gantt Diagram, which lets me know if I can take more task or not, or if I can attend to meeeting/events without take time from other important stuff.
http://static.commentcamarche.net/es.kioskea.net/pictures/projet-images-gant...
What if we add something like this? is even possible?
We can add tons of tools, but what we need is to teach and encourage people to use them. We already have increidible tools but they are so scattered that sometimes we don't have a proper guide to use them all.
I will try to add some examples (I'm offline at nights so I will have updates only at mornings)
does this sound reasonable?
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
OK, you asked for it...
* Add more here...
This may be a big project to try to incorporate, but I would love to see if we can get more accountability to the Fedora development schedule. We have a wonderful schedule now, but very little accountability to the schedule, and it's hard for the FPL to stay on top of every single item to make sure it has been accomplished. My (big?) proposal is:
* Fedora development * Have the Fedora development schedule that the Fedora Program Manager (Robyn Bergeron) updates available as a calendar in Insight. * For each task in the list, have at least one person responsible for the item. * Allow the responsible party to mark that item as "not yet in progress", "in progress", "completed", or "not going to be done". * Allow users to easily see overdue items that have not yet been completed.
-- Jared Smith Fedora Project Leader
On 06/01/2011 06:19 AM, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Paul W. Frieldsstickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
OK, you asked for it...
- Add more here...
This may be a big project to try to incorporate, but I would love to see if we can get more accountability to the Fedora development schedule. We have a wonderful schedule now, but very little accountability to the schedule, and it's hard for the FPL to stay on top of every single item to make sure it has been accomplished. My (big?) proposal is:
- Fedora development
- Have the Fedora development schedule that the Fedora Program
Manager (Robyn Bergeron) updates available as a calendar in Insight. * For each task in the list, have at least one person responsible for the item. * Allow the responsible party to mark that item as "not yet in progress", "in progress", "completed", or "not going to be done". * Allow users to easily see overdue items that have not yet been completed.
Some thoughts:
The schedule already outputs in .ics format, so, assuming that those are easily importable (and a quick glance at some of the drupal calendar documentation shows that it can be done), at least *showing* the major milestones should be easy, and with more thought we could probably make it so that people can see schedules for either (a) FAS groups they are part of after login, (b) Schedules they are subscribed to after login, or (c) anyone can click on any schedule to see it. Either way, that would be super cool.
The part about tracking progress introduces some trickier stuff.
.ics files contain a way to show progress completed, and so forth. The problem is that my .ics files, currently, are one-way -- that is to say, I can push them out to my schedules directory on fedorapeople (http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-16/), but at the moment can't really re-import them if they had updated information on percentages done, etc. (This gets particularly hairy if I have to republish the schedules in the event of a slip, which rebuilds .ics files, and then stuff would get overwritten, etc.)
My other reservations about the tracking are as follows:
* I worry about the overhead of having people needing to go and close / track things in multiple places. A lot of groups already use trac for their schedule items, and it just seems like additional process overhead for those folks, particularly when many of their tasks in trac are organized by major milestones, etc. and are already easy to check progress on.
* I also have concerns about "task tracking" starting to diverge a bit from the major purpose of Insight, which was to publish news and marketing type stuff. I think that "Finding events where Fedora will have a presence" is a great idea, along with providing a pretty-calendar way for that audience to see things like Freeze dates, Alpha/Beta/Final release dates, etc. I think that having the entire schedule there is *convenient*, though perhaps not really applicable to the target audience, but when we start talking about task-tracking and checkboxes it really starts feeling like maybe it should be another drupal instance/project/etc. elsewhere altogether (status.fedoraproject.org, or something like that) -- I hate to essentially air our dirty laundry about who's not done, or who hasn't clicked a box, to press and so forth. But I could be wrong. :)
-- Jared Smith Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ logistics mailing list logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 08:19:59AM -0500, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
OK, you asked for it...
* Add more here...
This may be a big project to try to incorporate, but I would love to see if we can get more accountability to the Fedora development schedule. We have a wonderful schedule now, but very little accountability to the schedule, and it's hard for the FPL to stay on top of every single item to make sure it has been accomplished. My (big?) proposal is:
- Fedora development
- Have the Fedora development schedule that the Fedora Program
Manager (Robyn Bergeron) updates available as a calendar in Insight.
- For each task in the list, have at least one person responsible
for the item.
- Allow the responsible party to mark that item as "not yet in
progress", "in progress", "completed", or "not going to be done".
- Allow users to easily see overdue items that have not yet been completed.
I don't think it's reasonable for the FPL to stay on top of every single item in the development schedule either. Ideally, FESCo as the technical leadership body would take the front seat role in accountability for deliverables that are part of the distribution creation. The FPL's focus can then be on the "soft side" work that requires more community leadership as opposed to technical leadership -- things like marketing efforts, identifying and solving community roadblocks or difficulties, and so on.
I like the idea of knowing who is responsible for any item on the schedule. However, we do want to be thoughtful about creating another work item (tracking in this case) for volunteers who are already stretched and giving generously of their time. I belive tracking status in a large distributed project like Fedora ultimately has to come down to a leadership entity (person or group) rather than adding another task to specific contributors.
On 06/02/2011 05:42 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 08:19:59AM -0500, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Paul W. Frieldsstickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
OK, you asked for it...
- Add more here...
This may be a big project to try to incorporate, but I would love to see if we can get more accountability to the Fedora development schedule. We have a wonderful schedule now, but very little accountability to the schedule, and it's hard for the FPL to stay on top of every single item to make sure it has been accomplished. My (big?) proposal is:
- Fedora development
- Have the Fedora development schedule that the Fedora Program
Manager (Robyn Bergeron) updates available as a calendar in Insight. * For each task in the list, have at least one person responsible for the item. * Allow the responsible party to mark that item as "not yet in progress", "in progress", "completed", or "not going to be done". * Allow users to easily see overdue items that have not yet been completed.
I don't think it's reasonable for the FPL to stay on top of every single item in the development schedule either. Ideally, FESCo as the technical leadership body would take the front seat role in accountability for deliverables that are part of the distribution creation. The FPL's focus can then be on the "soft side" work that requires more community leadership as opposed to technical leadership -- things like marketing efforts, identifying and solving community roadblocks or difficulties, and so on.
I like the idea of knowing who is responsible for any item on the schedule. However, we do want to be thoughtful about creating another work item (tracking in this case) for volunteers who are already stretched and giving generously of their time. I belive tracking status in a large distributed project like Fedora ultimately has to come down to a leadership entity (person or group) rather than adding another task to specific contributors.
Sorry I missed most of this, I blame my exams and my screwed up filters. Anyways I attended the meeting last night. Calendars for us will be a small part of the my GSoC project. My main idea is to get a better workflow for organizing FUDCons and other events. Calendar will be a part of my project in the sense, I'll have a place to show the events ordered by dates. So, yes I would love to help out with the Calendar Idea and do some shiny new stuff.
-H
On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 09:04:48AM +0530, Hiemanshu Sharma wrote:
On 06/02/2011 05:42 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 08:19:59AM -0500, Jared K. Smith wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Paul W. Frieldsstickster@gmail.com wrote:
So here are some starting questions regarding the calendar idea for Insight, solicited on our Phase 2 project plan[2]. PLEASE ADD MORE!
OK, you asked for it...
- Add more here...
This may be a big project to try to incorporate, but I would love to see if we can get more accountability to the Fedora development schedule. We have a wonderful schedule now, but very little accountability to the schedule, and it's hard for the FPL to stay on top of every single item to make sure it has been accomplished. My (big?) proposal is:
- Fedora development
- Have the Fedora development schedule that the Fedora Program
Manager (Robyn Bergeron) updates available as a calendar in Insight. * For each task in the list, have at least one person responsible for the item. * Allow the responsible party to mark that item as "not yet in progress", "in progress", "completed", or "not going to be done". * Allow users to easily see overdue items that have not yet been completed.
I don't think it's reasonable for the FPL to stay on top of every single item in the development schedule either. Ideally, FESCo as the technical leadership body would take the front seat role in accountability for deliverables that are part of the distribution creation. The FPL's focus can then be on the "soft side" work that requires more community leadership as opposed to technical leadership -- things like marketing efforts, identifying and solving community roadblocks or difficulties, and so on.
I like the idea of knowing who is responsible for any item on the schedule. However, we do want to be thoughtful about creating another work item (tracking in this case) for volunteers who are already stretched and giving generously of their time. I belive tracking status in a large distributed project like Fedora ultimately has to come down to a leadership entity (person or group) rather than adding another task to specific contributors.
Sorry I missed most of this, I blame my exams and my screwed up filters. Anyways I attended the meeting last night. Calendars for us will be a small part of the my GSoC project. My main idea is to get a better workflow for organizing FUDCons and other events. Calendar will be a part of my project in the sense, I'll have a place to show the events ordered by dates. So, yes I would love to help out with the Calendar Idea and do some shiny new stuff.
-H
It would be great to have you follow and help with our Calendar work, Hiemanshu. I think we all agreed in the meeting that our goals didn't have much crossover with yours and we wouldn't be duplicating any effort by working on the meetings calendar. At the same time, it would be good to see how and where we might need to plan ahead for any later calendar integration.
Hi Paul,
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 21:25 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
* I want to attend the next Fedora Infrastructure team meeting on IRC -- when does it happen?
* I want to know when the #fedora-meeting room is free, and put in a reservation when I find an open time.
* I want to see a list of important dates like string and feature freezes for the next release.
* I want to add an event to the Fedora events calendar and have that entry kick off other things like an eventbox or media request in a Trac.
* I want to know when the next Fedora release comes out. * I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geographic region next month.
These use cases are great. The comparison between the status quo and shiny future are also great and the shiny futures are a good point to start rough prototype sketches from and run them by users to see if they make sense. If the users like them, then the step after that would be to take a look and see how close the technology could get us to them.
Note that some of these start shading into the areas that Hiemanshu wants to cover in his GSoC project. So I'd REALLY, REALLY like it if he and/or Juan (nushio) could be at one of our meetings to discuss, or we can set up a special time to do that. Just need some word back from them...
Hiemanshu, if you want some help with prototype sketches of the shiny future ideas, just let me know and I'm happy to crank some out for you.
I'm also happy to join the meeting, Paul, if you think it would be helpful but you do seem off to a great start as-is.
~m
Máirín Duffy さんは書きました:
Hi Paul,
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 21:25 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
* I want to attend the next Fedora Infrastructure team meeting on IRC -- when does it happen?* I want to know when the #fedora-meeting room is free, and put in a reservation when I find an open time.* I want to see a list of important dates like string and feature freezes for the next release.* I want to add an event to the Fedora events calendar and have that entry kick off other things like an eventbox or media request in a Trac.* I want to know when the next Fedora release comes out. * I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geographic region next month.These use cases are great. The comparison between the status quo and shiny future are also great and the shiny futures are a good point to start rough prototype sketches from and run them by users to see if they make sense. If the users like them, then the step after that would be to take a look and see how close the technology could get us to them.
+10! I missed original message. These looks certainly great. Almost of all above I experienced myself to struggle to find. Thank you Paul and Mairin.
Note that some of these start shading into the areas that Hiemanshu wants to cover in his GSoC project. So I'd REALLY, REALLY like it if he and/or Juan (nushio) could be at one of our meetings to discuss, or we can set up a special time to do that. Just need some word back from them...
Hiemanshu, if you want some help with prototype sketches of the shiny future ideas, just let me know and I'm happy to crank some out for you.
I'm also happy to join the meeting, Paul, if you think it would be helpful but you do seem off to a great start as-is.
~m
logistics mailing list logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 09:48:04AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi Paul,
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 21:25 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
* I want to attend the next Fedora Infrastructure team meeting on IRC -- when does it happen?* I want to know when the #fedora-meeting room is free, and put in a reservation when I find an open time.* I want to see a list of important dates like string and feature freezes for the next release.* I want to add an event to the Fedora events calendar and have that entry kick off other things like an eventbox or media request in a Trac.* I want to know when the next Fedora release comes out. * I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geographic region next month.These use cases are great. The comparison between the status quo and shiny future are also great and the shiny futures are a good point to start rough prototype sketches from and run them by users to see if they make sense. If the users like them, then the step after that would be to take a look and see how close the technology could get us to them.
Note that some of these start shading into the areas that Hiemanshu wants to cover in his GSoC project. So I'd REALLY, REALLY like it if he and/or Juan (nushio) could be at one of our meetings to discuss, or we can set up a special time to do that. Just need some word back from them...
Hiemanshu, if you want some help with prototype sketches of the shiny future ideas, just let me know and I'm happy to crank some out for you.
I'm also happy to join the meeting, Paul, if you think it would be helpful but you do seem off to a great start as-is.
Hi Mo,
Sorry for the late reply -- since we're still in early stages I didn't want to use up an hour of your time. But I was thinking the next stage should be figuring out what technically needs to happen for each of the above processes to work from a user perspective.
For example, just starting with the very first bullet, if I want to attend the next Infra team meeting, a few things have to be present on the system:
* The ability for someone to put in a meeting time
* The ability for someone to edit an existing meeting time, perhaps based on their group membership (to prevent goofs)
* A view that presents upcoming meeting times in a calendar (what kind of view would this be? biweekly?), with filters
If we go through this process for all of the use cases, we have a pretty good idea of the work requirements. We can prioritize them by how big the win is, and then start to figure out our scope/what we can finish.
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jun 01, 2011 at 09:48:04AM -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi Paul,
On Tue, 2011-05-31 at 21:25 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote:
* I want to attend the next Fedora Infrastructure team meeting on IRC -- when does it happen?* I want to know when the #fedora-meeting room is free, and put in a reservation when I find an open time.* I want to see a list of important dates like string and feature freezes for the next release.* I want to add an event to the Fedora events calendar and have that entry kick off other things like an eventbox or media request in a Trac.* I want to know when the next Fedora release comes out. * I want to know what Fedora events are happening in my geographic region next month.These use cases are great. The comparison between the status quo and shiny future are also great and the shiny futures are a good point to start rough prototype sketches from and run them by users to see if they make sense. If the users like them, then the step after that would be to take a look and see how close the technology could get us to them.
Note that some of these start shading into the areas that Hiemanshu wants to cover in his GSoC project. So I'd REALLY, REALLY like it if he and/or Juan (nushio) could be at one of our meetings to discuss, or we can set up a special time to do that. Just need some word back from them...
Hiemanshu, if you want some help with prototype sketches of the shiny future ideas, just let me know and I'm happy to crank some out for you.
I'm also happy to join the meeting, Paul, if you think it would be helpful but you do seem off to a great start as-is.
Hi Mo,
Sorry for the late reply -- since we're still in early stages I didn't want to use up an hour of your time. But I was thinking the next stage should be figuring out what technically needs to happen for each of the above processes to work from a user perspective.
For example, just starting with the very first bullet, if I want to attend the next Infra team meeting, a few things have to be present on the system:
The ability for someone to put in a meeting time
The ability for someone to edit an existing meeting time, perhaps
based on their group membership (to prevent goofs)
- A view that presents upcoming meeting times in a calendar
(what kind of view would this be? biweekly?), with filters
If we go through this process for all of the use cases, we have a pretty good idea of the work requirements. We can prioritize them by how big the win is, and then start to figure out our scope/what we can finish.
-- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ Red Hat Summit/JBossWorld -- Register now! http://.theredhatsummit.com _______________________________________________ logistics mailing list logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/logistics
I'd like to add one more point to your list:
* The ability to update a past event, with the logs or meeting notes relevant to said meeting.
And..
Send ivitations, reminds and status updates to those involved in some activities (also send those boring remind mails that take time from great people)
logistics@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Hiemanshu Sharma -
Jared K. Smith -
Juan Rodriguez -
Kevin Fenzi -
María Leandro -
Máirín Duffy -
Noriko Mizumoto -
Paul W. Frields -
Robyn Bergeron