What to do with start.fp.o?

[Sijis Aviles]

Hi all,

I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and
freshening up its 'look and feel' which some of that work has been
completed. However, the problem is we need to answer what is the purpose of
start.fp.o?. Without answering this question, we can't redesign it without
having a target audience in mind.

I think that this site can be a very visible, since that's one of the two
sites that load upon launching FF for the first time. Currently I feel that
it lacks a purpose and its sorta out there with no target in mind. My
current view is to do something like a '1 page release notes' or 'New things
in Fedora X' type thing, something very simple and only 1 page. The other
idea is to just drop the site completely and/or use fp.o.

Here is a link to a few unorganized ideas about the redesign [1]. Any
ideas/suggestion/thoughts?

Thanks,

Sijis

[1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Start.fpo_redesign

[Stephen John Smoogen]

2011/6/17 Sijis Aviles <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  Hi all,
>
>  I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
>  start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and
>  freshening up its 'look and feel' which some of that work has been
>  completed. However, the problem is we need to answer what is the purpose of
>  start.fp.o?. Without answering this question, we can't redesign it without
>  having a target audience in mind.
>
>  I think that this site can be a very visible, since that's one of the two
>  sites that load upon launching FF for the first time. Currently I feel that
>  it lacks a purpose and its sorta out there with no target in mind. My
>  current view is to do something like a '1 page release notes' or 'New things
>  in Fedora X' type thing, something very simple and only 1 page. The other
>  idea is to just drop the site completely and/or use fp.o. 
Personally I think a page of tutorials like  "HOW TO USE THE FEDORA
DESKTOP" would be a good thing. Heck make it part of the release
process. If you want something to be included as a feature for release
N+1 it needs to have material to be added to start.

Even if the content is linking to tutorials and such on KDE, GNOME,
systemd etc sites.

Or to make a tl;dr

I think start should be for making it easier for users to "start" using the OS.

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
"The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance."
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
"Let us be kind, one to another, for most of us are fighting a hard
battle." -- Ian MacLaren

[Ryan Rix]

Some ideas:

* Integrate bits of Insight in to it (iframes, or something more elegant?)
* Create onramps for people to get involved in Fedora

On Fri 17 June 2011 15:24:48 Sijis Aviles wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
>  start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and
>  freshening up its 'look and feel' which some of that work has been
>  completed. However, the problem is we need to answer what is the purpose of
>  start.fp.o?. Without answering this question, we can't redesign it without
>  having a target audience in mind.
>  
>  I think that this site can be a very visible, since that's one of the two
>  sites that load upon launching FF for the first time. Currently I feel that
>  it lacks a purpose and its sorta out there with no target in mind. My
>  current view is to do something like a '1 page release notes' or 'New things
>  in Fedora X' type thing, something very simple and only 1 page. The other
>  idea is to just drop the site completely and/or use fp.o.
>  
>  Here is a link to a few unorganized ideas about the redesign [1]. Any
>  ideas/suggestion/thoughts?
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  Sijis
>  
>  [1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Start.fpo_redesign 
-- 
Ryan Rix -- http://rix.si
== OpenSource.com: Where Open Source Happens! ==

[Misha Shnurapet]

18.06.2011, 05:24, "Sijis Aviles" <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
> start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and freshening up its
> 'look and feel' which some of that work has been completed. However, the problem
> is we need to answer what is the purpose of start.fp.o?. Without answering this question,
> we can't redesign it without having a target audience in mind. 
Hi.

Some ideas:
* what is exciting about Fedora for non-geek users
* a list of apps (useful or to have fun with)
* libre multimedia content (like Miro Guide or VODO), cool stuff like Big Buck Bunny and
Sintel
* Fedora Planet feed
* A web-based community chat / support channel
* call for participation (something like "What would you like to improve:
etc."), list of burning community tasks

--
Best regards,
Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
Email: shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, IRC: misha on freenode
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/shnurapet, GPG: 00217306

[Catalin]

My ideas , create some short articles with this subjects:

* Why Fedora it is different from other distro ?
* What benefits come with this distribution ?
* A page like "Fedora brainstorming" where users can come up with
ideas to improve Fedora

2011/6/18 Misha Shnurapet <shnurapet(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  18.06.2011, 05:24, "Sijis Aviles"
> <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
> > I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
> start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and freshening up its
> 'look and feel' which some of that work has been completed. However, the problem
> is we need to answer what is the purpose of start.fp.o?. Without answering this question,
> we can't redesign it without having a target audience in mind.
>
>  Hi.
>
>  Some ideas:
>  * what is exciting about Fedora for non-geek users
>  * a list of apps (useful or to have fun with)
>  * libre multimedia content (like Miro Guide or VODO), cool stuff like Big Buck Bunny and
> Sintel
>  * Fedora Planet feed
>  * A web-based community chat / support channel
>  * call for participation (something like "What would you like to improve:
> etc."), list of burning community tasks
>
>  --
>  Best regards,
>  Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
>  Email: shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, IRC: misha on freenode
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/shnurapet, GPG: 00217306
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>  design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>  


-- 
My sites:
http://catalin-festila.blogspot.com -about me
http://tv.free-tutorials.org - video tutorials
http://python-catalin.blogspot.com - my python blog

[atlee atlee]

Hi All,

These answers can be answered because Fedora is different then other distros.
>  * Why Fedora it is different from other distro ? Fedora uses the
> latest, not just system wise but also latest and have found more applications available to
> Fedora then any other distros and that's even including Ubuntu which sits at no #1.
>  * What benefits come with this distribution ? More software, better view on where
> everything is heading and better improvements at a faster rate.
>  * A page like "Fedora brainstorming" where users can come up with ideas to
> improve Fedora > This should definitely be included a brainstorming area. There are
> many things Fedora distro should target with forthcoming releases and patches. 
Man I ordered a new Wacom board to find out later this model dont support the Pen, mixed
up the Touch model with Touch & Pen silly me :(

Josh

>  Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:22:26 +0300
>  From: catalinfest(a)gmail.com
>  To: design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Subject: Re: [Design-team] What to do with start.fp.o?
>  
>  My ideas , create some short articles with this subjects:
>  
>  * Why Fedora it is different from other distro ?
>  * What benefits come with this distribution ?
>  * A page like "Fedora brainstorming" where users can come up with
>  ideas to improve Fedora
>  
>  2011/6/18 Misha Shnurapet <shnurapet(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  > 18.06.2011, 05:24, "Sijis Aviles" <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  >> I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
> start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and freshening up its
> 'look and feel' which some of that work has been completed. However, the problem
> is we need to answer what is the purpose of start.fp.o?. Without answering this question,
> we can't redesign it without having a target audience in mind.
>  >
>  > Hi.
>  >
>  > Some ideas:
>  > * what is exciting about Fedora for non-geek users
>  > * a list of apps (useful or to have fun with)
>  > * libre multimedia content (like Miro Guide or VODO), cool stuff like Big Buck Bunny
> and Sintel
>  > * Fedora Planet feed
>  > * A web-based community chat / support channel
>  > * call for participation (something like "What would you like to improve:
> etc."), list of burning community tasks
>  >
>  > --
>  > Best regards,
>  > Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
>  > Email: shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, IRC: misha on freenode
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/shnurapet, GPG: 00217306
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > design-team mailing list
>  > design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>  >
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  My sites:
>  http://catalin-festila.blogspot.com -about me
>  http://tv.free-tutorials.org - video tutorials
>  http://python-catalin.blogspot.com - my python blog
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>  design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[Máirín Duffy]

On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 06:22 +0000, Catalin wrote:
>  My ideas , create some short articles with this subjects:
>  
>  * Why Fedora it is different from other distro ?
>  * What benefits come with this distribution ? 
A lot of this material is already available on fedoraproject.org, so
maybe those articles could be highlighted?

~m

[Elad Alfassa]

2011/6/20 Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;

>  On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 06:22 +0000, Catalin wrote:
>  > My ideas , create some short articles with this subjects:
>  >
>  > * Why Fedora it is different from other distro ?
>  > * What benefits come with this distribution ?
>
>  A lot of this material is already available on fedoraproject.org, so
>  maybe those articles could be highlighted?
>
>  ~m
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>  design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>  
IMO, if someone has already downloaded and installed fedora, there is no
reason to push these stuff in the user's face. Instead, we can either:
1) Show useful information for new users (starter guides, "next steps" are
some good examples)
2) Show the default firefox homepage (about:home)
3) Show fedoraproject.org
4) Show useful information for existing users (eg. one page release notes)
With an option to combine 1 and 4.

-- 
-Elad.

[Misha Shnurapet]

20.06.2011, 21:29, "Máirín Duffy" <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  On Sat, 2011-06-18 at 06:22 +0000, Catalin wrote:
>
> >  My ideas , create some short articles with this subjects:
> >
> >  * Why Fedora it is different from other distro ?
> >  * What benefits come with this distribution ?
>
>  A lot of this material is already available on fedoraproject.org, so
>  maybe those articles could be highlighted?
>
>  ~m 
Or simply redirect to native language versions of:
* http://fedoraproject.org/en/features/
* http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora
* http://fedoraproject.org/en/using/
* http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-help

-- 
Best regards,
Misha Shnurapet, Fedora Project Contributor
Email: shnurapet AT fedoraproject.org, IRC: misha on freenode
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/shnurapet, GPG: 00217306

[Sijis Aviles]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Misha Shnurapet <
shnurapet(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  18.06.2011, 05:24, "Sijis Aviles"
> <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  > I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
>  start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and
>  freshening up its 'look and feel' which some of that work has been
>  completed. However, the problem is we need to answer what is the purpose of
>  start.fp.o?. Without answering this question, we can't redesign it without
>  having a target audience in mind.
>
>  
I got some very thoughtful responses. Here are some of my thoughts around
them:

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Misha Shnurapet wrote:
>  * call for participation (something like "What would you like to
> improve: 
etc."), list of burning community tasks

I think having some feedback on how to improve Fedora is great. My only
thought is the 'start' page really the best place for that? If this is the
first time i've used Fedora, how would I know what it should improve in.

This also leads into a question... do users actually keep the site
start.fp.o as a default page after their first FF launch?


On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Ryan Rix wrote:
>     Some ideas:
>     * Integrate bits of Insight in to it (iframes, or something more 
elegant?)

We currently try to integrate some of the stuff in lists.fp.o and planet.
Once Insight is fully implemented it can be added too.

>     * Create onramps for people to get involved in Fedora 
Yes. We surely want folks to contribute to the project. We already have
join.fp.o (which is just a redirect). Maybe she should highlight that stuff
more in other places too?


On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:

>  Personally I think a page of tutorials like  "HOW TO USE THE
> FEDORA 
DESKTOP" would be a good thing. Heck make it part of the release
process. If you want something to be included as a feature for release
N+1 it needs to have material to be added to start.

This is an interesting thought. It reminds me of a 'how to get started' type
thing, which is what ideally start.fp.o should be. We already have some
tutorials written but there is so much community driven content out there
that we should be able to point to them as resources for users. This
definitely keeps the content writing ourselves to a minimum.

What I don't understand is what you mean by "make it part of the release
process". Are you referring to make it parts of the docs/marketing/websites
beta/alpha/ga release processes? And who will own this?

Sijis

[atlee atlee]

This question below:
This also leads into a question... do users actually keep the site start.fp.o as a default
page after their first FF launch?

The answer can always most definitely be>
Most people change the default homepage straight away after setting up there machines.

Josh

Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:31:17 -0500
From: sijis(a)fedoraproject.org
To: design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org; websites(a)lists.fedoraproject.org;
marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org; logistics(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Design-team] What to do with start.fp.o?



On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Misha Shnurapet <shnurapet(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

18.06.2011, 05:24, "Sijis Aviles" <sijis(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:

>  I wanted to start a discussion on what is the goal/purpose for
> start.fedoraproject.org. There has been some push on redesigning and freshening up its
> 'look and feel' which some of that work has been completed. However, the problem
> is we need to answer what is the purpose of start.fp.o?. Without answering this question,
> we can't redesign it without having a target audience in mind. 



I got some very thoughtful responses. Here are some of my thoughts around them:

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Misha Shnurapet wrote:
>  * call for participation (something like "What would you like to
> improve: etc."), list of burning community tasks 

I think having some feedback on how to improve Fedora is great. My only thought is the
'start' page really the best place for that? If this is the first time i've
used Fedora, how would I know what it should improve in.


This also leads into a question... do users actually keep the site start.fp.o as a default
page after their first FF launch?


On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Ryan Rix wrote:
>     Some ideas:
>     * Integrate bits of Insight in to it (iframes, or something more elegant?) 

We currently try to integrate some of the stuff in lists.fp.o and planet. Once Insight is
fully implemented it can be added too.

>     * Create onramps for people to get involved in Fedora 
Yes. We surely want folks to contribute to the project. We already have join.fp.o (which
is just a redirect). Maybe she should highlight that stuff more in other places too?



On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Stephen John Smoogen  wrote:

>  Personally I think a page of tutorials like  "HOW TO USE THE
> FEDORA 
DESKTOP" would be a good thing. Heck make it part of the release

process. If you want something to be included as a feature for release
N+1 it needs to have material to be added to start. 

This is an interesting thought. It reminds me of a 'how to get started' type
thing, which is what ideally start.fp.o should be. We already have some tutorials written
but there is so much community driven content out there that we should be able to point to
them as resources for users. This definitely keeps the content writing ourselves to a
minimum. 


What I don't understand is what you mean by "make it part of the release
process". Are you referring to make it parts of the docs/marketing/websites
beta/alpha/ga release processes? And who will own this?


Sijis


_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team