Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Let me know how the new bubbles work for you; this is the initial release, so there is probably some fine-tuning left to do.
In other bubble news, the amount of notifications that get emitted by NM, g-p-m and packagekit should be noticeably reduced, compared to F11.
Matthias
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
In other bubble news, the amount of notifications that get emitted by NM, g-p-m and packagekit should be noticeably reduced, compared to F11.
\o/
Is all I have to say.
2009/9/25 Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
I'll have to try it later. One thing that the F11 theme didn't get right is that when using a GTK+ theme with text (dark themes) it is unreadable due to the bubble's light yellow background.
Anyway, if there are less notifications it's not much of a problem anymore :-)
Rui
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 09:23 +0100, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:
2009/9/25 Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Do you have a screen-shot anywhere? I hope it's not a step back to the original ugly plain-color engine which does not fit with Clearlooks any better than the Nodoka one does... I cannot check for myself since I'm still unable to install Rawhide on my machine :(
I'll have to try it later. One thing that the F11 theme didn't get right is that when using a GTK+ theme with text (dark themes) it is unreadable due to the bubble's light yellow background.
This has been fixed in rawhide already (see rhbz 498422), but I haven't pushed it back to sable releases because it also changes the colour for default theme and I don't have any idea how to fix that...
Anyway, if there are less notifications it's not much of a problem anymore :-)
Rui
Martin
On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 20:48 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Let me know how the new bubbles work for you; this is the initial release, so there is probably some fine-tuning left to do.
Ok, so some observation from installing it on F11 (I have newer gtk already there because I need it for new webkitgtk, so no problem...): it inverts colours (the engine itself, not via theme gtkrc, that's understandable though, given that it seems impossible [or at least I don't know how] to target specifically the notify bubbles in theme gtkrc...), while it looks nice for bright themes on darkish desktop, it would look at least odd with dark themes. Also the bright clearlooks close button clashes with other buttons design and the overal dark theme.
Now for some functional problems: the position is wrong if "displayed with arrow". Instead of repositioning correctly with respect to screen, it is placed with it's top-left corner where the imaginary arrow should start and thus usually ends up out of screen when the arrow starts at notification area.
Also it ignores urgency.
Martin
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 11:31 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote: <snip>
Now for some functional problems: the position is wrong if "displayed with arrow". Instead of repositioning correctly with respect to screen, it is placed with it's top-left corner where the imaginary arrow should start and thus usually ends up out of screen when the arrow starts at notification area.
Update the notification-daemon for that to work.
Cheers
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 11:17 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 11:31 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
<snip> > Now for some functional problems: the position is wrong if "displayed > with arrow". Instead of repositioning correctly with respect to screen, > it is placed with it's top-left corner where the imaginary arrow should > start and thus usually ends up out of screen when the arrow starts at > notification area.
Update the notification-daemon for that to work.
Indeed, updating n-d to f12 version fixes this and surprisingly does not break the case when the arrow is actually present (like in nodoka or standard engine)...
Matthias Clasen said the following on 09/24/2009 05:48 PM Pacific Time:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Let me know how the new bubbles work for you; this is the initial release, so there is probably some fine-tuning left to do.
I confess up front to not understanding the full ramifications or risks of changing notifications at this point in the release cycle. Why are we making this change now (right before the final freeze) when Feature freeze was almost two months ago. Why can't this wait for Fedora 13?
John
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 08:27 -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
Matthias Clasen said the following on 09/24/2009 05:48 PM Pacific Time:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Let me know how the new bubbles work for you; this is the initial release, so there is probably some fine-tuning left to do.
I confess up front to not understanding the full ramifications or risks of changing notifications at this point in the release cycle. Why are we making this change now (right before the final freeze) when Feature freeze was almost two months ago. Why can't this wait for Fedora 13?
We are making it before the beta freeze. We are changing a theme, so this is relatively low risk. And we are changing it now because we want F12 to look polished.
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-09-25 at 08:27 -0700, John Poelstra wrote:
Matthias Clasen said the following on 09/24/2009 05:48 PM Pacific Time:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
Let me know how the new bubbles work for you; this is the initial release, so there is probably some fine-tuning left to do.
I confess up front to not understanding the full ramifications or risks of changing notifications at this point in the release cycle. Why are we making this change now (right before the final freeze) when Feature freeze was almost two months ago. Why can't this wait for Fedora 13?
We are making it before the beta freeze. We are changing a theme, so this is relatively low risk. And we are changing it now because we want F12 to look polished.
It does seem like a pretty minor change and very low risk. But all black? Really? OK, it does get my attention faster, so I'll give you that one. However, the interactive bits (buttons in a bubble) are inconsistent.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=525864
Also, there doesn't seem to be any difference between low, normal, and critical urgency notifications any longer.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=525867
Paul
Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 20:48 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
After I have seen them now I can say I think they are horrible. We could really argue if the Nodoka bubbles matched the rest of Nodoka, but this definitely matches even less.
I think such changes shouldn't been done as a solo action without previous notice. Has the design team been aked about this? (No, Matthias and Jon, you are *not* the design team, sorry). Or people from the desktop SIG? How about other contributors?
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
Regards, Christoph
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 15:00 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 20:48 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
After I have seen them now I can say I think they are horrible. We could really argue if the Nodoka bubbles matched the rest of Nodoka, but this definitely matches even less.
I think such changes shouldn't been done as a solo action without previous notice. Has the design team been aked about this? (No, Matthias and Jon, you are *not* the design team, sorry). Or people from the desktop SIG? How about other contributors?
The design team is busy doing backgrounds. We _are_ doing the design of the desktop spin, whether you like it or not. Just like I expect you to do the design of the Xfce spin, and the KDE team to do the design of their product.
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
Yes, he is doing a great job with the Nodoka theme.
How does that imply that we are ungrateful by not sticking with it forever ?
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 09:20 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The design team is busy doing backgrounds.
The design team is doing more than just backgrounds and not everyone there is busy with doing the backgrounds. The design team is also helping with the websites design, various UI designs,... Please do not oversimplify what the design team actually does ;-)
We _are_ doing the design of the desktop spin, whether you like it or not. Just like I expect you to do the design of the Xfce spin, and the KDE team to do the design of their product.
I expect you to do the final selections, not the design itself -- you have the design team (the fedora one and the one at upstream) to help with that and it would be nice if you at least consulted with us when you are doing changes that are diverging from upstream defaults (I can accept that when you decide to stick with upstream defaults you don't need to hear fedora design team opinion about that).
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
Yes, he is doing a great job with the Nodoka theme.
How does that imply that we are ungrateful by not sticking with it forever ?
Yup, I don't feel that what Jon and you have done is being ungrateful to me. I've made the needed first step with providing actually good looking alternative to the bland default engine (speaking now about the notification-daemon only) and I am actually grateful that its being replaced by something that is nice, instead of reverting back to the ugly defaults. From time to time, changes are good thing.
But come to thing of it, now that the alternatives are starting to "pile up", it would be actually great to have means to select the theme (other way than via whole-gnome-desktop-theme or gconf).
Martin
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:19 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 09:20 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The design team is busy doing backgrounds.
The design team is doing more than just backgrounds and not everyone there is busy with doing the backgrounds. The design team is also helping with the websites design, various UI designs,... Please do not oversimplify what the design team actually does ;-)
Yeah, sorry. I was oversimplifying here.
But come to thing of it, now that the alternatives are starting to "pile up", it would be actually great to have means to select the theme (other way than via whole-gnome-desktop-theme or gconf).
You mean individual theme components in general, or notification themes, specifically ?
For individual theme components, the appearance capplet has the "Customize" dialog which lets you change various components individually.
That doesn't include notification themes though. The notification daemon includes a separate theme-switching dialog, which we don't include in our package, because it is not really worth a separate menuitem. If somebody feels inclined to work on it, it is probably doable to add a notification tab to the Customize dialog. I don't think it is a high priority though. And with gnome-shell, separate notification themes may go away altogether.
Matthias
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 10:28 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:19 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
But come to thing of it, now that the alternatives are starting to "pile up", it would be actually great to have means to select the theme (other way than via whole-gnome-desktop-theme or gconf).
You mean individual theme components in general, or notification themes, specifically ?
The notification themes specifically.
For individual theme components, the appearance capplet has the "Customize" dialog which lets you change various components individually.
Yup, I know ;-)
That doesn't include notification themes though. The notification daemon includes a separate theme-switching dialog, which we don't include in our package, because it is not really worth a separate menuitem. If somebody feels inclined to work on it, it is probably doable to add a notification tab to the Customize dialog. I don't think it is a high priority though. And with gnome-shell, separate notification themes may go away altogether.
Aah, I read something about that at gnome planet but didn't know where to actually find it. In the appearance capplet it would be probably better off. As about the gnome-shell -- I'm still a bit sceptic whether it's a step a forward or just a hindrance (I haven't tried it myself yet and available screen-casts are suggesting the later...), but to stay on topic, I don't like the idea of notify bubbles being inthemable, or am I misunderstanding and the bubbles will be themable as a part of some bigger component?
Martin
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Martin Sourada martin.sourada@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 10:28 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 16:19 +0200, Martin Sourada wrote:
But come to thing of it, now that the alternatives are starting to "pile up", it would be actually great to have means to select the theme (other way than via whole-gnome-desktop-theme or gconf).
You mean individual theme components in general, or notification themes, specifically ?
The notification themes specifically.
For individual theme components, the appearance capplet has the "Customize" dialog which lets you change various components individually.
Yup, I know ;-)
That doesn't include notification themes though. The notification daemon includes a separate theme-switching dialog, which we don't include in our package, because it is not really worth a separate menuitem. If somebody feels inclined to work on it, it is probably doable to add a notification tab to the Customize dialog. I don't think it is a high priority though. And with gnome-shell, separate notification themes may go away altogether.
Aah, I read something about that at gnome planet but didn't know where to actually find it. In the appearance capplet it would be probably better off. As about the gnome-shell -- I'm still a bit sceptic whether it's a step a forward or just a hindrance (I haven't tried it myself yet and available screen-casts are suggesting the later...), but to stay on topic, I don't like the idea of notify bubbles being inthemable, or am I misunderstanding and the bubbles will be themable as a part of some bigger component?
http://blogs.gnome.org/mccann/2009/07/05/getting-the-message/
Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2009, 09:20 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 15:00 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 20:48 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
After I have seen them now I can say I think they are horrible. We could really argue if the Nodoka bubbles matched the rest of Nodoka, but this definitely matches even less.
I think such changes shouldn't been done as a solo action without previous notice. Has the design team been aked about this? (No, Matthias and Jon, you are *not* the design team, sorry). Or people from the desktop SIG? How about other contributors?
The design team is busy doing backgrounds.
You are busy, the design team is busy. What's the difference? We are all busy at this time of the development cycle I guess.
We _are_ doing the design of the desktop spin, whether you like it or not. Just like I expect you to do the design of the Xfce spin, and the KDE team to do the design of their product.
I do the design of the Xfce Spin, but I do it different. I'm not making changes without asking for feedback and announcing the changes. When I introduced Nodoka for xfwm4, I did that because I was asked to do it. I posted the result to the mailing lists and *then* made the change. This is a fundamentally different from your solo actions. The order DOES matter, even if Jon says that nothing ever is final.
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
Yes, he is doing a great job with the Nodoka theme.
How does that imply that we are ungrateful by not sticking with it forever ?
By making a decision without asking the people involved. And Martin definitely is one of these people. Please give him and the rest of the community a chance respond to the problems you have with his/their work.
Thanks, Christoph
Hi Christoph,
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 20:48 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
After I have seen them now I can say I think they are horrible. We could really argue if the Nodoka bubbles matched the rest of Nodoka, but this definitely matches even less.
I think such changes shouldn't been done as a solo action without previous notice. Has the design team been aked about this? (No, Matthias and Jon, you are *not* the design team, sorry). Or people from the desktop SIG? How about other contributors?
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
So, this message is clearly a troll but I'd like to respond to a few things anyway.
If you have any substantial and specific critique of the theme I'd love to hear it.
We are the people involved in designing the desktop product. Anyone may contribute to that but there is no magic design team that needs to be consulted before we make changes. There are people that I think are very good at what they do and I consult them as much as possible. In this case in particular, there were a few different people I consulted. But if you wish to put labels on things - yes we are the desktop design team.
I have no idea why anyone would think that we're ungrateful to Martin because of this. I'm pretty sure Martin wouldn't think this either. However, he probably doesn't prefer the new design over his - why would he? There are going to be differences in opinion like this. It is only natural. He has been notably constructive in his messages so far.
At the end of the day we need to stand up and take responsibility for the end result. To make sure things fit together coherently. That doesn't mean that these decisions occur in a vacuum or that we don't need a heck of a lot of help. Nothing is ever final.
For now, Matthias and I have assumed the (often difficult) responsibility of trying to fit all our shit together in a way that doesn't totally suck. We *do* need your help to do that. But that doesn't mean that we're going to avoid making the often difficult choices - it is critical that we do.
So, let's try to keep focus on what we are all trying to achieve here. By the way have you tried the latest Ubuntu nightly? It isn't half bad. Snow Leopard? Doesn't suck. Windows 7 - yeah I could use that.
Jon
Am Dienstag, den 29.09.2009, 11:13 -0400 schrieb William Jon McCann:
Hi Christoph,
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 24.09.2009, 20:48 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
After I have seen them now I can say I think they are horrible. We could really argue if the Nodoka bubbles matched the rest of Nodoka, but this definitely matches even less.
I think such changes shouldn't been done as a solo action without previous notice. Has the design team been aked about this? (No, Matthias and Jon, you are *not* the design team, sorry). Or people from the desktop SIG? How about other contributors?
IMHO this change is also very ungrateful to Martin, who does an amazing job with the Nodoka theme.
So, this message is clearly a troll but I'd like to respond to a few things anyway.
If you have any substantial and specific critique of the theme I'd love to hear it.
Hi Jon,
I think I already lined out my critique in the previous post. In case you didn't get it: * The new theme doesn't fit to the rest of the desktop. * Fedora is and always has been blue. Blue is our brand. While yellow is the complementary color to blue, what exactly is the relation from black to blue? * Changes like this shouldn't happen so late in the development cycle. * Changes like this shouldn't happen without asking for feedback *first*. Pushing a change and asking afterwards is not the way. * It's not the first time Matthias makes/wants to make a change like this in a solo action. This is not how a community project works.
Please be so kind as to reply to these points one by one instead of just calling it trolling.
We are the people involved in designing the desktop product. Anyone may contribute to that but there is no magic design team that needs to be consulted before we make changes.
If you really think so, I'm sorry for you, because you still have not understood that Fedora is a community project. The days where Red Hat employees were to decide everything inside of RH (hopefully) are over.
There are people that I think are very good at what they do and I consult them as much as possible. In this case in particular, there were a few different people I consulted. But if you wish to put labels on things - yes we are the desktop design team.
Would you name some names please?
I was talking of the design team which is lead by Mairin. and who is doing much more than just wallpapers. These people are not necessarily developers, but brilliant artists. Not asking them for assistance is missing a great opportunity.
Or think of the desktop SIG. How many of it's 12 members were actually involved in this decision?
I have no idea why anyone would think that we're ungrateful to Martin because of this. I'm pretty sure Martin wouldn't think this either.
Then please take a look at Martin's reply to Matthias or the recent "Default theme for F12" thread. Reading between the lines you can clearly see Martins disappointment when he asks "I have been wondering what "we" stands for here... The discussion seems to mostly happen off-list."
However, he probably doesn't prefer the new design over his - why would he? There are going to be differences in opinion like this. It is only natural. He has been notably constructive in his messages so far.
At the end of the day we need to stand up and take responsibility for the end result. To make sure things fit together coherently.
Which IMO simply is not the case. According to the comments on Paul's blog article I'm not the only one who thinks so.
That doesn't mean that these decisions occur in a vacuum or that we don't need a heck of a lot of help. Nothing is ever final.
Ok, why push something a day before development freeze without asking for feedback first then? Smells a little funny to me.
For now, Matthias and I have assumed the (often difficult) responsibility of trying to fit all our shit together in a way that doesn't totally suck. We *do* need your help to do that.
Again: If you need help or feedback, why not ask? And why not ask *first*?
But that doesn't mean that we're going to avoid making the often difficult choices - it is critical that we do.
So, let's try to keep focus on what we are all trying to achieve here. By the way have you tried the latest Ubuntu nightly? It isn't half bad. Snow Leopard? Doesn't suck. Windows 7 - yeah I could use that.
I don't get what you are trying to tell me with this. We are not Ubuntu, we are not MacOS or Window ether. We are Fedora, a project "maintained and driven by the community and sponsored by Red Hat." Or is the wiki wrong?
Jon
Regards, Christoph
P.S.: I have CC'ed Max. Call me a squealer, but I think your attitude towards the involvement of the community is something that IMO really should be discussed.
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:13:58AM -0400, William Jon McCann wrote:
At the end of the day we need to stand up and take responsibility for the end result. To make sure things fit together coherently. That doesn't mean that these decisions occur in a vacuum or that we don't need a heck of a lot of help. Nothing is ever final.
For now, Matthias and I have assumed the (often difficult) responsibility of trying to fit all our shit together in a way that doesn't totally suck. We *do* need your help to do that. But that doesn't mean that we're going to avoid making the often difficult choices - it is critical that we do.
Where's the source? If I was interested in looking at the source, to learn a little about what you're doing, I wouldn't know where to find it. Google only brings me the same link in the RPM information:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~mccann/notification-daemon-engine-slider
The top-level index doesn't show it either. Help?
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:13:58AM -0400, William Jon McCann wrote:
At the end of the day we need to stand up and take responsibility for the end result. To make sure things fit together coherently. That doesn't mean that these decisions occur in a vacuum or that we don't need a heck of a lot of help. Nothing is ever final.
For now, Matthias and I have assumed the (often difficult) responsibility of trying to fit all our shit together in a way that doesn't totally suck. We *do* need your help to do that. But that doesn't mean that we're going to avoid making the often difficult choices - it is critical that we do.
Where's the source? If I was interested in looking at the source, to learn a little about what you're doing, I wouldn't know where to find it. Google only brings me the same link in the RPM information:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~mccann/notification-daemon-engine-slider
The top-level index doesn't show it either. Help?
Ask the freedesktop.org admins.
Jon
On 10/01/2009 06:04 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Ask the freedesktop.org admins.
http://ajaxxx.livejournal.com/62015.html
Rahul
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 06:12:12AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/01/2009 06:04 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Ask the freedesktop.org admins.
Ugh. Thanks for the info, Rahul. Jon, did this survive in a local clone of yours?
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 06:12:12AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/01/2009 06:04 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Ask the freedesktop.org admins.
Ugh. Thanks for the info, Rahul. Jon, did this survive in a local clone of yours?
and do you want to talk about moving things to fedora hosted space? We have lovely backups.
-sv
Matthias Clasen (mclasen@redhat.com) said:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
So, looking at this now, it looks like it integrates well with the gnome-shell sort of desktop/palette, but not the current gnome defaults. Or is it intended to be a full contrast with the current colors?
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
In other bubble news, the amount of notifications that get emitted by NM, g-p-m and packagekit should be noticeably reduced, compared to F11.
Hooray. Is someone planning to hit RB with a cluestick? (Or was this already done, and I have stale plugin settings...)
Bill
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:10 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Matthias Clasen (mclasen@redhat.com) said:
Tomorrows rawhide will have a new notification theme for Gnome.
The aim of this new theme is to integrate well with the theming in the rest of the desktop (which wasn't really the case with nodoka bubbles and a clearlooks desktop).
So, looking at this now, it looks like it integrates well with the gnome-shell sort of desktop/palette, but not the current gnome defaults. Or is it intended to be a full contrast with the current colors?
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
In other bubble news, the amount of notifications that get emitted by NM, g-p-m and packagekit should be noticeably reduced, compared to F11.
Hooray. Is someone planning to hit RB with a cluestick? (Or was this already done, and I have stale plugin settings...)
The defaults in RB are to show notifications when the main window is hidden. If you want different behaviour by default, please file a bug upstream. I don't intend on changing that default.
Cheers
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 14:08 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:10 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
Not to throw stones, but I'll point out that we had the notification theme in before the F12 backgrounds...
Not trying to avoid the stones, but the F12 backgrounds are in since Alpha and the discussion that lead to their inclusion was held since about F11 GA. The beta version is polished version of what was already included. We skipped some deadlines (wallpaper refreshes) in our schedule (which we'll reflect in F13 schedule), but we are mostly on track now, which means we are following a schedule [1] we put together with poelstra at the *beginning* of the F12 release cycle.
Not to throw back the stones, but I failed to notice any prior notification of the notification-daemon engine/theme change.
I (personally) don't see anything bad with changing (especially minor) defaults just before beta freeze, but it would be nice if the code was included before that and the intended change was announced and discussed much before that (ideally before feature freeze).
Martin
[1] http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-design-tasks.html
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:08:06PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:10 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
Not to throw stones, but I'll point out that we had the notification theme in before the F12 backgrounds...
If you don't want to throw stones, the answer is simple: Don't.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=constantine-backgrounds#p...
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=notification-daemon-engin...
The changes in the background over the course of the F12 cycle were discussed on the design-team list repeatedly as they were made, and comments invited via blogs and the list. The latest iteration was *packaged* after freeze, but that was through an exception the Design team requested specifically from Rel-Eng.
We could have a more rational discussion if someone could simply point to some reference or data and say, "We changed the theme for the default desktop away from what was already being produced because this data tells us that our design is more effective at notifying people."
Similarly, we could have more *courteous* discussions in future situations like this if someone was to present that information in advance and say, "We understand you are working on something that doesn't seem to fit the data and ideas we have. Here's why we think that's the wrong way to go for the Desktop spin. Do you have information we don't have that says otherwise?"
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 14:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:08:06PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:10 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
Not to throw stones, but I'll point out that we had the notification theme in before the F12 backgrounds...
If you don't want to throw stones, the answer is simple: Don't.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=constantine-backgrounds#p...
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=notification-daemon-engin...
The changes in the background over the course of the F12 cycle were discussed on the design-team list repeatedly as they were made, and comments invited via blogs and the list. The latest iteration was *packaged* after freeze, but that was through an exception the Design team requested specifically from Rel-Eng.
There were some candidate backgrounds in F12 alpha, but what I have seen floated as the final background is roughly as far away from the candidates that were voted on than slider is from Nodoka. Anyway, this is going nowhere, so lets drop it.
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 03:26:07PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 14:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Oct 01, 2009 at 02:08:06PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 13:10 -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
I'm also concerned about the timing of this... I take it this wasn't ready at feature freeze?
Not to throw stones, but I'll point out that we had the notification theme in before the F12 backgrounds...
If you don't want to throw stones, the answer is simple: Don't.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=constantine-backgrounds#p...
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/?package=notification-daemon-engin...
The changes in the background over the course of the F12 cycle were discussed on the design-team list repeatedly as they were made, and comments invited via blogs and the list. The latest iteration was *packaged* after freeze, but that was through an exception the Design team requested specifically from Rel-Eng.
There were some candidate backgrounds in F12 alpha, but what I have seen floated as the final background is roughly as far away from the candidates that were voted on than slider is from Nodoka. Anyway, this is going nowhere, so lets drop it.
Alpha, ca. 2009-07-28 to 2009-08-11 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Wallpaper-mosaico6.png (from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Artwork#Candidates_for_default_wallpaper)
Refresh, ca. 2009-08-20 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Constantine_Perspective_Mosaico.svg (from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Artwork#First_Wallpaper_Refresh)
Beta, ca. 2009-09-28?: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Mosaic_2048x1536.png (from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Artwork/Beta#Wallpaper)
I'm pointing out the sequence and timing of the development so that there's no confusion about how this work evolved.
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