Am Donnerstag, den 22.04.2010, 07:47 -0400 schrieb Matthias Clasen:
On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 11:27 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
> During the whole discussion about the update process we
> learned that this is one of the main reasons why many people prefer
> Fedora over other distributions.
I think the one thing we learned is that Kevin can write more emails and
shout louder than anybody else. I challenge you to find a single Fedora
user who only uses Fedora because it can produce more untested updates
than any other distribution.
Updates and testing are two completely different things. Please don't
mix problems that are not related. I agree with you that we need better
testing but I don't necessarily agree to the statement that we need less
I do know users *and* package maintainers, who use Fedora mainly because
they get new versions of a package in a timely manner instead of just
bugfixes. We have already lost some valuable contributors lately and I
don't want to see more people leave.
> Sorry, but to me this attitude sounds arrogant. People
> something" - especially GNOME people - is not how community works and
> often is the source of a very unpleasant update experience.
Sure, doing something works by gathering a rough consensus between the
major parties and then start doing something. Waiting for the great
world-spanning consensus of everybody is a recipe for endless flamewars
and doing nothing.
Not sure if I agree to that. I agree you cannot make everybody happy but
if "small parties" includes the users/maintainers of KDE, Xfce and LXDE,
then I'd say we need to at least try to get them involved instead of
deciding for them.
> Think of the recent hal update that broke every desktop but
> F13. It was not announced (at least not for F13) and it was pushed
> after the beta freeze only for the GNOME people to finish their hal
> removal feature. Is this your idea of just doing "great things"?
I'm pretty sure we can find one or two broken update that you have
pushed in the past as well. Do you really think we should sink to that
level of discussion ?
I have no intentions to sink the level of discussion, but I'm optimistic
that you wont be able to find an update I did after beta freeze without
previous notice to the maintainers of packages I broke (if any).
If you are concerned about the level of discussion, please don't mix two
different issues like updates and QA.