Since upgrading to Fedora 20, I've been prompted to restart and install updates nearly every day. This seems non-ideal. (Or pick your favorite loaded term: absurd, crazy, insane, ....)
It'd be nice to have a gnome-settings-daemon update that significantly increases the default time between updates. (I'm thinking weekly.) I know checking for updates is handled differently in Fedora 21: this email is only about Fedora 20.
Michael
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.orgwrote:
Since upgrading to Fedora 20, I've been prompted to restart and install updates nearly every day. This seems non-ideal. (Or pick your favorite loaded term: absurd, crazy, insane, ....)
It'd be nice to have a gnome-settings-daemon update that significantly increases the default time between updates. (I'm thinking weekly.) I know checking for updates is handled differently in Fedora 21: this email is only about Fedora 20.
Michael
I like the daily upgrades and keeping up with what is new of fixed. If I had the opposite view, such as Michael's above, I simply wouldn't upgrade all the time; I would upgrade when it suited me. If you believe it to be absurd to be upgrading daily as I do, then do not - upgrade on your own terms. I believe that it is not one individual responsible for such a rate, rather each developer finishes their upgrade at a certain point and pushes it into the stream, and it is the machine that pushes out an upgrade after so many contributions. I don't think you can change it without pissing off those who want it. No one said that you had to keep up; just go at your own pace.
Richard
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
Personally, I log out of or reboot my primary workstations about twice a year. Until recently, Fedora got along with that fine.
Monty
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 13:29 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
To be clear: every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME. (You have to go out of your way, by using yum/dnf or gpk-update-viewer, if you want to avoid reboots.)
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.orgwrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 13:29 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
To be clear: every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME. (You have to go out of your way, by using yum/dnf or gpk-update-viewer, if you want to avoid reboots.)
Let me suggest again that you do not need to keep up. In a free movement,
no one dictates that you need to keep pace except your own values, and if you don't like it, do whatever you prefer.
In a free movement, no one dictates that you need to keep pace except your own values, and if you don't like it, do whatever you prefer.
How deliciously passive aggressive.
You can usually get away with not rebooting right away, but you need to be aware that you aren't going to get kernel or shared library fixes right away, which can leave security vulnerabilities in some cases.
That's the case now. ....wait, did anything actually change? The original complaint sounded like reboots were suddenly being forced in a way they weren't before.
Monty
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 13:29 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
To be clear: every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME. (You have to go out of your way, by using yum/dnf or gpk-update-viewer, if you want to avoid reboots.)
Let me suggest again that you do not need to keep up. In a free movement, no one dictates that you need to keep pace except your own values, and if you don't like it, do whatever you prefer.
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
The default notification required a reboot to action.
(If you ingore it and shutdown, the updates will not be carried out or prompted at next boot).
An issue is that even though you dont hve to reboot straight away, knowing that there are updates that need to be applied through rebooting is itself a nag. Too many and people will get desensitised to the need to apply updates and that is IMO a bad thing.
Knowing that your system is not up to date can also cause a feel of unease when using the system.
Updates are important but there is a social aspect to them too. physical notification should be on a weekly basis and upon booting the system they should be automatically applied or a prompt given so that you can apply them and not boot, then reboot to get the updates.
On 28 December 2013 19:08, Monty Montgomery xiphmont@gmail.com wrote:
In a free movement, no one dictates that you need to keep pace except your own values, and if you don't like it, do whatever you prefer.
How deliciously passive aggressive.
You can usually get away with not rebooting right away, but you need to be aware that you aren't going to get kernel or shared library fixes right away, which can leave security vulnerabilities in some cases.
That's the case now. ....wait, did anything actually change? The original complaint sounded like reboots were suddenly being forced in a way they weren't before.
Monty
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Richard Vickery richard.vickeryrv@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 13:29 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
To be clear: every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME. (You have to go out of your way, by using yum/dnf or gpk-update-viewer, if you want to avoid reboots.)
Let me suggest again that you do not need to keep up. In a free movement, no one dictates that you need to keep pace except your own values, and if you don't like it, do whatever you prefer.
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 20:36 +0000, Naheem Zaffar wrote:
The default notification required a reboot to action.
(If you ingore it and shutdown, the updates will not be carried out or prompted at next boot).
An issue is that even though you dont hve to reboot straight away, knowing that there are updates that need to be applied through rebooting is itself a nag. Too many and people will get desensitised to the need to apply updates and that is IMO a bad thing.
Knowing that your system is not up to date can also cause a feel of unease when using the system.
Updates are important but there is a social aspect to them too. physical notification should be on a weekly basis and upon booting the system they should be automatically applied or a prompt given so that you can apply them and not boot, then reboot to get the updates.
This is actually already how it works, or how it's designed to. It's not hard to confirm: read the settings in dconf org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates . It notifies of non-security updates once a week, and security updates immediately.
I found this very annoying when testing for #Fedora-qa where there was a long delay on reboot as the updates were applied.
Automatic downloads can be turned off when not wanted:[1].
It can a risk to leave them turned off in a non-testing environment.
Tom Gilliard
{1}http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_21#Turn_off_gnome_automatic_background_u...
On 12/28/2013 5:30 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 20:36 +0000, Naheem Zaffar wrote:
The default notification required a reboot to action.
(If you ingore it and shutdown, the updates will not be carried out or prompted at next boot).
An issue is that even though you dont hve to reboot straight away, knowing that there are updates that need to be applied through rebooting is itself a nag. Too many and people will get desensitised to the need to apply updates and that is IMO a bad thing.
Knowing that your system is not up to date can also cause a feel of unease when using the system.
Updates are important but there is a social aspect to them too. physical notification should be on a weekly basis and upon booting the system they should be automatically applied or a prompt given so that you can apply them and not boot, then reboot to get the updates.
This is actually already how it works, or how it's designed to. It's not hard to confirm: read the settings in dconf org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates . It notifies of non-security updates once a week, and security updates immediately.
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 17:30 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
This is actually already how it works, or how it's designed to. It's not hard to confirm: read the settings in dconf org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates . It notifies of non-security updates once a week, and security updates immediately.
This policy makes sense upstream, but Fedora has almost daily security updates. A vendor override would be appropriate for F20.
I don't know if this is configurable or not in F21, where checking for updates is handled by gnome-software rather than gnome-settings-daemon.
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 20:25 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 17:30 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
This is actually already how it works, or how it's designed to. It's not hard to confirm: read the settings in dconf org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.updates . It notifies of non-security updates once a week, and security updates immediately.
This policy makes sense upstream, but Fedora has almost daily security updates. A vendor override would be appropriate for F20.
I doubt security-conscious users would agree that they want to wait a week for updates to save you the bother of dismissing a notification now and again.
I don't know if this is configurable or not in F21, where checking for updates is handled by gnome-software rather than gnome-settings-daemon.
No, it isn't. g-s is just a UI. The update check and notification is still done in g-s-d/shell, AIUI.
No, it isn't. g-s is just a UI. The update check and notification is still done in g-s-d/shell, AIUI.
It moved: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=774a67b55ca21901d4dca...
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 14:08 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
You can usually get away with not rebooting right away, but you need
to be aware that you aren't going to get kernel or shared library fixes right away, which can leave security vulnerabilities in some cases.
That's the case now. ....wait, did anything actually change? The original complaint sounded like reboots were suddenly being forced in a way they weren't before.
I'll repeat myself: "every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME." There is no such thing as an update that does not require reboot. (Unless you are using yum, or KDE, etc.)
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:40:15 -0600, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Sat, 2013-12-28 at 13:29 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
I'd have thought the problem is not daily updates, but daily updates that require logout or reboot.
To be clear: every update requires reboot in Fedora 20 GNOME. (You have to go out of your way, by using yum/dnf or gpk-update-viewer, if you want to avoid reboots.)
You can usually get away with not rebooting right away, but you need to be aware that you aren't going to get kernel or shared library fixes right away, which can leave security vulnerabilities in some cases. For some applications (notably firefox), you'll need to restart the application to avoid issues. For cases where you have gnome issues, logging out will probably be good enough and you can avoid doing a reboot.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Adam Williamson -
Bruno Wolff III -
Michael Catanzaro -
Monty Montgomery -
Naheem Zaffar -
Richard Vickery -
Thomas Gilliard