a new look to Red Hat's Fedora pages

[Max Spevack]

Hi all,

I wanted to take a second to point out some of the recent changes that 
have been made to the Fedora pages that are a part of www.redhat.com, 
coinciding with the release of fc5.

If you take a look, you'll see that we are running a promo on the 
www.redhat.com homepage that announces the release of fc5, and that 
clicking through it will drive you to www.redhat.com/fedora which has also 
taken on a new look.  The fc5 release is a big deal around here, and we're 
treating it as such.

If you remember the old page that used to be there, you will remember that 
it was fairly devoid of information, and it did not make it particularly 
easy for the user to make it over to either fedora.redhat.com or to 
fedoraproject.org

That has all changed -- we have a bunch of direct links into 
fedoraproject.org that make it very clear (I hope) what the current 
version of Fedora is, how to download it, and other useful information, 
while playing well with the look and feel of Red Hat's other "top level" 
pages.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and reactions.  Let me know what 
you think, and whether or not you thing the new www.redhat.com/fedora does 
a good job of providing a window into the heart of the Fedora Project.

-- 
Max Spevack <mspevack{at}redhat.com>                 gpg key: mspevack.asc
http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/                  fingerprint: 5A17 CF21

[Rahul Sundaram]

Max Spevack wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
>  I wanted to take a second to point out some of the recent changes that 
>  have been made to the Fedora pages that are a part of www.redhat.com, 
>  coinciding with the release of fc5.
>
>  If you take a look, you'll see that we are running a promo on the 
>  www.redhat.com homepage that announces the release of fc5, and that 
>  clicking through it will drive you to www.redhat.com/fedora which has 
>  also taken on a new look.  The fc5 release is a big deal around here, 
>  and we're treating it as such.
>
>  If you remember the old page that used to be there, you will remember 
>  that it was fairly devoid of information, and it did not make it 
>  particularly easy for the user to make it over to either 
>  fedora.redhat.com or to fedoraproject.org
>
>  That has all changed -- we have a bunch of direct links into 
>  fedoraproject.org that make it very clear (I hope) what the current 
>  version of Fedora is, how to download it, and other useful 
>  information, while playing well with the look and feel of Red Hat's 
>  other "top level" pages.
>
>  I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and reactions.  Let me know 
>  what you think, and whether or not you thing the new 
>  www.redhat.com/fedora does a good job of providing a window into the 
>  heart of the Fedora Project.
>  
I love the new page much better than the earlier version but a link to 
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhelorfedora/ is missing. We really 
should get spend some good amount of effort in revamping 
fedoraproject.org content with the new cms system in place 
(http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org/) and dismantle fedora.redhat.com after 
setting up appropriate redirects. I think we need help with the content 
and organization for fedoraproject.org from within Red Hat for the 
initial design. Shouldnt be too much work but is extremely critical that 
we dont retain a annoyingly sparse fedora.redhat.com for too long.


-- 
Rahul

[Max Spevack]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

>  I love the new page much better than the earlier version but a link
> to 
>  http://www.redhat.com/software/rhelorfedora/ is missing. 
I'd like to clean that table up a bit, and then find a place to stick that 
link back on www.redhat.com/fedora -- thank you for reminding me of it.

>  We really should get spend some good amount of effort in revamping 
>  fedoraproject.org content with the new cms system in place 
>  (http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org/) and dismantle fedora.redhat.com after 
>  setting up appropriate redirects. 
Yep, deprecating f.r.c is in our future -- that is why all of the links on 
www.redhat.com/fedora are pointing directly to fp.o instead of to f.r.c

--Max

-- 
Max Spevack <mspevack{at}redhat.com>                 gpg key: mspevack.asc
http://people.redhat.com/mspevack/                  fingerprint: 5A17 CF21

[Elliot Lee]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

>  I love the new page much better than the earlier version but a link
> to 
>  http://www.redhat.com/software/rhelorfedora/ is missing. We really 
>  should get spend some good amount of effort in revamping 
>  fedoraproject.org content with the new cms system in place 
>  (http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org/) and dismantle fedora.redhat.com after 
>  setting up appropriate redirects. I think we need help with the content 
>  and organization for fedoraproject.org from within Red Hat for the 
>  initial design. Shouldnt be too much work but is extremely critical that 
>  we dont retain a annoyingly sparse fedora.redhat.com for too long. 
Speaking of new web sites, I have the .PSD files of a new look for the web
site that the design firm used by RH came up with. Really need to turn
those into actual CSS + images at some point... It all meshes nicely with 
the stuff that has already been going on here and on 
fedora-websites-list.

Best,
-- Elliot

[Alex]

On 3/21/06, Elliot Lee <sopwith(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Speaking of new web sites, I have the .PSD files of a new look for
> the web
>  site that the design firm used by RH came up with. Really need to turn
>  those into actual CSS + images at some point... It all meshes nicely with
>  the stuff that has already been going on here and on
>  fedora-websites-list. 
Yes please, Elliot, if you could speed things up a bit, it would be
wonderful--while we have all the buzz going from the new release :)

Cheers,
Alex

[Jon Fautley]

Max Spevack wrote:

>  I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and reactions.  Let me
> know what 
>  you think, and whether or not you thing the new www.redhat.com/fedora 
>  does a good job of providing a window into the heart of the Fedora Project. 
One question - wasn't one of the main goals of the Fedora Foundation to 
differentiate between "Red Hat" and "Fedora" as two seperate
entities?

"redhat.com/fedora" - this is even more 'Red Hat' than 
'fedora.redhat.com'. Is Fedora a part of Red Hat now?

Cheers,

Jon

P.S I know Fedora and Red Hat are different, but this isn't how it looks 
to an 'external' person (I'm writing this email because I've just had an 
IM from a friend reading "So are Red Hat taking back Fedora then?")
-- 
Jon Fautley <jfautley(a)redhat.com&gt;     direct: [phone]
  Technical Account Manager            office: [phone]
  Red Hat UK                           mobile: [phone]
  10 Alan Turing Road, Surrey Research Park, Guildford GU2 7YF

[Paul W. Frields]

On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 09:52 +0000, Jon Fautley wrote:
>  Max Spevack wrote:
>  
>  > I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and reactions.  Let me know what 
>  > you think, and whether or not you thing the new www.redhat.com/fedora 
>  > does a good job of providing a window into the heart of the Fedora Project.
>  
>  One question - wasn't one of the main goals of the Fedora Foundation to 
>  differentiate between "Red Hat" and "Fedora" as two seperate
> entities?
>  
>  "redhat.com/fedora" - this is even more 'Red Hat' than 
>  'fedora.redhat.com'. Is Fedora a part of Red Hat now? 
I don't agree; this is no more "claiming" Fedora than any
"example.com/fedora" link.  Keep in mind this page has always been
there, and it's a way to drive people looking for Fedora support at Red
Hat to head for the community sites instead.  There is no escaping that
people *associate* Fedora with Red Hat, nor is that particularly a bad
thing.

>  P.S I know Fedora and Red Hat are different, but this isn't how
> it looks 
>  to an 'external' person (I'm writing this email because I've just had an
>
>  IM from a friend reading "So are Red Hat taking back Fedora then?") 
This snippet might be more meaningful if you could ascertain how he
arrived at this conclusion.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Bryan Smith]

On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  I don't agree; this is no more "claiming" Fedora than
> any
>  "example.com/fedora" link.  Keep in mind this page has always been
>  there, and it's a way to drive people looking for Fedora support at Red
>  Hat to head for the community sites instead.  There is no escaping that
>  people *associate* Fedora with Red Hat, nor is that particularly a bad
>  thing. 
Fedora is a project sponsored, in part, by Red Hat.

Heck, some people draw whatever conclusions they want _regardless_ of
what the Fedora Project, Red Hat, etc... has on their site.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith             Professional, technical annoyance
mailto:[e-mail]       http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------
****** Speed doesn't kill.  Difference in speed does! ******

[Jeremy Hogan]

On 3/23/06, Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith(a)ieee.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  > I don't agree; this is no more "claiming" Fedora than any
>  > "example.com/fedora" link.  Keep in mind this page has always been
>  > there, and it's a way to drive people looking for Fedora support at Red
>  > Hat to head for the community sites instead.  There is no escaping that
>  > people *associate* Fedora with Red Hat, nor is that particularly a bad
>  > thing.
>
>  Fedora is a project sponsored, in part, by Red Hat.
>
>  Heck, some people draw whatever conclusions they want _regardless_ of
>  what the Fedora Project, Red Hat, etc... has on their site. 

Right, Red Hat needs to have something about Fedora, fairly prominently
placed on their on their site. The traffic redhat.com gets is RHEL related,
and thusly the page should look like redhat.com, and lead folks gently to
the different URL and very different look/feel/voice/content of the real
Fedora home. Likewise, a fedoraproject page that mentioned Red Hat would
look like a Fedora page.

Neither creates or even exaserbates the branding confusion. Remember when
folks used to think Mandrake was further along than RHAT b/c they were on
version 7 when Red Hat was only on version 6 of "Linux", or how SuSE would
use it to their advantage and slap in a test kernel and rev their release
days "don;t settle for Red Hat 9 when you can have SuSE 10! Now with
unstable kernel!" ?

It took some education that began where folks were (completely ignorant of
Linux v. a distribution), to get them where they are now (only mostly
ignorant of Linux v. a distribuion) .

Red Hat invests more into and draws more from Fedora than any entity on the
planet and so they are linked. The name is derived from Red Hat's brand,
both sites mention each other and position the relationship, and a simple
"this one is blue, that one is red" isn't going to instantly create a
distinction when the subtext is obvious.

IMHO if Red Hat and Fedora ignored each other and pretended not to know each
other it would seem confused, fractured, or even sleazy... sort of exactly
how it was seen at launch when RH had marginalized it to "hobbyists" and
declared it "unstable for production", and alluded to the possibility of
monthly releases in order to ensure enough of the deeper pocketed folks
bought into the new horse pill and didn't stay in community land.

I shit you not, I was once told to take Fedora off my laptop for a demo by a
Red Hatter who himself didn't seem to know what it was.

There are also cross-over users to consider (ie anyone running RHEL, or
certifying their apps or hardware on it, had better be running Fedora in a
lab somewhere, and RH better tell me to do so in their site.)

At least Fedora is on their site, right out there in front of God and
everybody, and positioned as what it is. And right where RH should let
Fedora talk, well there's the handy link. If it's done right, folks can
quickly opt-in to the right place, rather than feeling like they are
optingout of one at the expense of the other. IMNSHO, it's the job of this
group to tell folks what Fedora is, and who it's for when they get to the
project pages.

--jeremy