fedora-ve logo?
by "Guillermo Gómez S."
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Hi, we have a contributor who posted a modified logo with fedora-ve
text in it.
Is it valid to do such modifications? I dont want to punish him but
certainly he has a point on localizing the logo somehow.
What's the policy in this case? To encourgae him to make it "the
right" or not to modify it at all ?
Guillermo
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17 years
Providing patched DVDs to potential users
by Rob Garth
A generic install of FC5 requires hundreds of megs of patches once
installed, a particular frustration of mine, and I am sure it doesn't
leave a good taste in the mouth of people trying out Fedora for the
first time.
Whenever I give out Fedora DVD images now, I make sure they are built
form an updated install tree and that the will require no - or minimal
- patching after install.
Why isn't there updated monthly releases of the FC iso images? I think
there should be, and I think whenever a DVD is handed out to the
general public it should be up to date.
Any thoughts? (and apalogies if this is the wrong group to post to).
Rob Garth.
17 years, 5 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: M?ir?n Duffy <duffy(a)redhat.com>
>> This can be handled in a way where the sub-organization's identity is
>> associated with the main brand, bit not integrated with the logo.
>
> ? Care to give an example or even a sketch?
Looks like it is put up or shut up for me ;)
> My argument here is that the clearspace is too restrictive
Every logo usage document I have been involved with has had at least
one designer think a portion was too restrictive. I am assuming that
this type of "sub-logo" situation was considered when the usage
guidelines were created, as some of the logo proposals included
"sub-logo" ideas that were dropped.
> As has been noted earlier in this thread, the Fedora Wiki mockup [1],
> designed
> by Capstrat themselves (who designed the Fedora logo), violates the
> clearspace
> set in the guidelines with the Fedora wiki logo in the upper left
> corner.
I personally don't see the reason why the word "WIKI" is placed so
close to the logo in that sample layout. Who cares that it is a Wiki
rather than some other technology ? Does the word "HTML" occur below
the logo on static pages ?
There are other design options and plenty of space to move the word
"WIKI" somewhere else if it is important.
> You keep saying that it's possible for sub-orgs to identify with the
> Fedora
> project in their logos without changing the established usage
> guidelines, but
> you don't explain how that is possible. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I am working under a deadline right now, I will try to see if I can set
aside some time to come up with a few ideas. If I was going to work on
some ideas, I would like to use other examples besides putting the word
'WIKI" with the logo. Four characters is easy to squeeze in somewhere,
but if you have 15 to 20 characters, or even two lines of copy to
"squeeze" in, that changes many design decisions. Even the examples
given earlier at <http://people.redhat.com/dfong/flogo/newHeaders.htm>
seem to be one word or two short words. Other languages tend to have a
greater number of characters for the same words or phrases in English.
What is the term for "info feed" in German ? Should we think about
designs using other character sets, like Cyrillic for one example ?
Charles Dostale
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>
> Artists are creating art.
Art is personal expression, graphics are not art. Graphics are the
prostitution of art concepts and techniques to get a specific desired
reaction for the benefit of the party paying for the graphics.
> They might not have any intention or desire to
> promote FOSS tools and the tools or the artists knowledge on those
> tools
> might be limited.
Even the appearance of promoting FOSS tools would be the type of
ass-kissing considered normal for a designer ;)
Charles Dostale
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
For those that think it is difficult to install the GIMP on a Windows
or Mac, that's because those platforms don't support yum ;)
Otherwise, I fall on the side that installing the GIMP on Windows or OS
X is is not brain-dead simple, but simple enough for most users.
Requiring the installation of the GIMP ( or Inkscape ) on Windows or OS
X is not too high of a bar to ask, IMHO.
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: "Patrick W. Barnes" <nman64(a)n-man.com>
> This is a common case. If the original proprietary program
> (Photoshop) can't
> directly save to an open format, then the contributor should use
> another tool
> (the GIMP) to convert the file from a proprietary format (PSD) to the
> best
> open format possible (XCF). It is the responsibility of the original
> contributor to make this conversion.
XCF is not a open standard format like SVG or OpenDocument. XCF is a
format that happens to have the source code available that reads and
writes that format, otherwise XCF isn't documented well.
I do think it is a good idea to encourage the use of open source tools
by distributing layouts and other files in the _native_ format of those
open source tools. That would include the native format of Scribus (
.sla ).
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: M?ir?n Duffy <duffy(a)redhat.com>
> Actually, this is *not* true with respect to what Hugo is suggesting.
> For example:
>
> http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/graphics/downloads/pdfs/toolkit.pdf
Very descriptive document.
> Look at pages 8 & 9 of the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute brand
> book. A
> university is a large organization made up of many sub-organizations -
> schools,
> departments, research labs, etc. RPI's brand guidelines (as most
> universities'
> and large corporations') recognize that they must apply to many
> disparate
> sub-organizations that share the same 'brand' and have guidelines for
> incorparating the use of their logo for those sub-organizations.
This can be handled in a way where the sub-organization's identity is
associated with the main brand, bit not integrated with the logo. It
depends how close the affiliation of the sub-organization is to the
main organization.
> This concept of 'sub-logo' guidelines actually not that uncommon in
> brand
> design, and it would be nice if such sub-logo guidelines could be
> specified for
> Fedora's logo.
True. If desired, guidelines on how to handle such cases should be
integrated into the usage document, like the one for rpi.edu mentioned
above. This puts a larger load on someone within the Fedora Project to
keep tabs on a larger array of logos, and have new logos created or
approved as the Fedora Project grows. Without a dedicated logo cop
within the Fedora Project, I think the simplicity of the current usage
document keeps the overhead of maintaining the Fedora visual identity
at a minimum. That is a benefit to the Fedora Community from my point
of view.
I agree with your point, but I ask how much additional value does the
Fedora Project get out of these additional logos, verses establishing
an identity link for sub-organizations without changing the established
usage guidelines ?
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: Gain Paolo Mureddu <gmureddu(a)prodigy.net.mx>
> Speaking of print... Do you have information (besides the one at their
> site) when will the SVGP spec will be ratified and implemented?
Sorry, no. I expect as with any standards ratification, the timeline is
not set in stone.
> Are there any
> programs to manipulate EPS?
First, a bit about EPS.
EPS stands for Encapsulated PostScript. An EPS file is actually a
PostScript program, meant to be executed at print time. In practice, a
given EPS file can only be edited by the program that originates it.
Because each vector drawing application can create and use proprietary
PostScript functions within the EPS, if an application different from
the originating program tries to edit the EPS, there will be some
problems translating the original PostScript functions into the
proprietary functions of the application attempting to edit the EPS.
By the way, the term "proprietary" as used here does not only apply to
closed source applications. For example, if the KOffice program
Karbon14 used different PostScript functions from Inkscape, there
might be be translation issues, even though both applications are open
source. However, since both applications are open source, the
developers of each application would be able to more easily work
together to fix translation problems, or perhaps even collaborate on a
library both programs could use to read/write EPS files.
In the graphics industry, having an EPS file not editable is considered
a Good Thing in many cases. That way any logo you distribute can't
easily be modified, which is highly desirable. This is why I recommend
distributing native formats as well as formats that are good for
distribution. In fact, it is possible to keep the native format files
under stricter control, such as only having them available on request.
In answer to your question about vector drawing tools, I assume you are
focussed on the Linux platform. Besides Inkscape and the previously
mentioned Karbon14 ( Killustrator/Kontour ), there is a GNUStep
application called Cenon. I have used Inkscape the most of those three,
although nott as much as Adobe Illustrator or Aldus/Macromedia/Adobe
Freehand.
> I mean I know encapsulated postscript or PDF
> are a better way to handle printing, but how would you adjust color (to
> CMYK for instance) with those formats?
Besides hacking on the PostScript with a text editor, open the file in
the originating application.
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265
17 years, 6 months
Re: New logo guidelines and web design elements posted
by chasd
> From: Hugo Cisneiros <hugo(a)devin.com.br>
> They complained that the Logo isn't following the guidelines, but
> didn't say
> what guideline it wasn't following. Looking at the guidelines I found
> out
> that I was not following the "Clear Space" rule. Ok, I gave up, IMO
> there was
> no good way to create a new logo for Wiki and follow this guideline.
Identity guidelines can be difficult to follow in some cases, but there
is usually a workable solution. It is possible your original layout
concept did not take the guidelines into account, and retrofitting the
guidelines into that concept was not workable. That doesn't mean that
there is _no_ possible solution, likely just no solution from your
original starting point. Perhaps a fresh start on a different layout
would produce a workable solution.
> Looking today at the proprietary image format about a new Wiki design,
> I
> realized that the design itself isn't following the "clear space"
> guideline
> too. Ironic.
I did not have time to look at that layout. If this is true that does
set a bad president.
> So I suggested (and I'm bringing this discussion here) to extend the
> Logo
> Guidelines to create Sub-Projects Logos, like for Fedora Extras, Fedora
> Documentation, Fedora (Brazil), Fedora (France), and so on. The current
> guidelines does not allow us to do this in a pretty way because of the
> "clear
> space" rule. What do you think?
No.
With identity management, there can be only One True Way. Variation is
confusing and dilutes the identity as one other poster already
mentioned.
Charles Dostale
System Admin - Silver Oaks Communications
http://www.silveroaks.com/
824 17th Street, Moline IL 61265
17 years, 6 months
