teacher certification in ... free culture?

[Karsten Wade]

http://blog.nj.com/jerseyblogs/2008/08/going_google_talking_with_goog.html

An interview with a New Jersey teacher who went to Google for a day to
learn about bringing various modern social web tools in to the
classroom.  I can imagine how cool it was.

Not being there, I have to presume the focus was on the well-integrated
tools that Google offers and not, for example, on the open source
software underneath them.

From a perspective of bringing more open source to educators, what are
equivalents that Fedora could be doing here?

Oh, and, uh, for less cash outlay.  :)

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

[David Nalley]

2008/8/19 Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt;:
> http://blog.nj.com/jerseyblogs/2008/08/going_google_talking_with_goog.html
>
>  An interview with a New Jersey teacher who went to Google for a day to
>  learn about bringing various modern social web tools in to the
>  classroom.  I can imagine how cool it was.
>
>  Not being there, I have to presume the focus was on the well-integrated
>  tools that Google offers and not, for example, on the open source
>  software underneath them.
>
>  From a perspective of bringing more open source to educators, what are
>  equivalents that Fedora could be doing here?
>
>  Oh, and, uh, for less cash outlay.  :)
>
>  - Karsten
>  --
>  Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
>  Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
>  Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
>  gpg key : AD0E0C41
>
>  -- 
The idea that immediately popped into my head: Well in the 'obviously
less money' front that means this has to be more regionalized, as I
imagine travel and lodging are the major expenses.
You could hold a 'regional' workshop invite teachers to it - partner
with a local LUG to show off open source. Maybe setup an impromptu
lab. Perhaps we don't even term it as a open source workshop - but
more of a technology workshop. As part of the "showing off" hold up
some examples like Marcelo Tossati, Sarath Lakshman, and Ian Weller
hopefully to open their eyes to what kind of opportunities are
available to people (even high school kids) who are motivated to get
involved and learn.

But really I'd like to know what the end goals you are seeking. I
understand that you have said that you want to bring more open source
to educators - but I guess why is the question? Are we looking to get
them to show off open source, become users of OSS? Are we looking to
make them into Robby Workmans - teachers by day and packagers by
night? Or are we trying to get them to reveal (or open their class to
us so that we can) open source to their students. Or all of the above?
(and if it's all of the above, what's the primary target among those?)
For one I didn't come away with the impression that the teacher had a
greater appreciation for open source software or even knew what it
was, despite the fact that she was inevitably making use of it.

I can't imagine that a teacher (or anyone else) would want to spend a
day listening to a sales pitch (even if the item was free as in beer),
or even propaganda.  So my second question is - what's the
demonstrable benefit for them? Especially if they are not teaching
something related to computers? Google said if you attend you will
learn technology that's current and hip - and you'll take away
technology that will make your life more productive, improve your
understanding of the technology your students are using, and possibly
give you something that you can show off to your students. What's the
takeaway statement from what Fedora would provide. I am asking that
not to be difficult, but I think we often get so used to showing off
'cool stuff' to technophiles, geeks and Linux-lovers that we lose
sight of the fact that just because it's cool to us doesn't mean that
others will even care - even if they should.

[Larry Cafiero]

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 12:25 PM, David Nalley
<david.nalley(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  You could hold a 'regional' workshop invite teachers to it - partner
>  with a local LUG to show off open source. Maybe setup an impromptu
>  lab. Perhaps we don't even term it as a open source workshop - but
>  more of a technology workshop. 
And I know just the LUG to do it -- Karsten, we can talk about this
off list because it sounds like something that the Cabrillo College
GNU/Linux Users Group could host in Central California.

>  But really I'd like to know what the end goals you are seeking.
> I
>  understand that you have said that you want to bring more open source
>  to educators - but I guess why is the question? Are we looking to get
>  them to show off open source, become users of OSS? Are we looking to
>  make them into Robby Workmans - teachers by day and packagers by
>  night? Or are we trying to get them to reveal (or open their class to
>  us so that we can) open source to their students. Or all of the above?
>  (and if it's all of the above, what's the primary target among those?) 
> From a purely evangelical standpoint, getting teachers exposed to FOSS
(at a minimum) or getting them to be users of FOSS in the classroom
(at the most) raises the profile of open source, and with that higher
profile, the profile of Fedora is raised along with it. Not only does
it benefit those teachers choosing to use it -- especially those
teachers in computer-type classes -- but students being exposed to it
in high school get an advantage as they go into college, especially
those going into something digital related, by having a wider range of
knowledge.

>  I can't imagine that a teacher (or anyone else) would want to
> spend a
>  day listening to a sales pitch (even if the item was free as in beer),
>  or even propaganda.  So my second question is - what's the
>  demonstrable benefit for them? Especially if they are not teaching
>  something related to computers? 
Some states like Florida (and maybe California) require their teachers
to attend seminars related to education during the course of the year,
for which they get credit or "points" or something (if anyone is a
teacher in a state with this requirement and can elaborate, that would
help). An open source seminar might beat the heck out of a "Latest New
Age Discipline Techinques" seminar or something like that. I hope.

>  I am asking that
>  not to be difficult, but I think we often get so used to showing off
>  'cool stuff' to technophiles, geeks and Linux-lovers that we lose
>  sight of the fact that just because it's cool to us doesn't mean that
>  others will even care - even if they should. 
No truer words were spoken.

Just a couple of observations to be taken or left.

Larry Cafiero
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Lcafiero

[David Nalley]

2008/8/19 Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt;:
> http://blog.nj.com/jerseyblogs/2008/08/going_google_talking_with_goog.html
>
>  An interview with a New Jersey teacher who went to Google for a day to
>  learn about bringing various modern social web tools in to the
>  classroom.  I can imagine how cool it was.
>
>  Not being there, I have to presume the focus was on the well-integrated
>  tools that Google offers and not, for example, on the open source
>  software underneath them.
>
>  From a perspective of bringing more open source to educators, what are
>  equivalents that Fedora could be doing here?
>
>  Oh, and, uh, for less cash outlay.  :)
>  
As a follow up on this I talked with a teacher or two. They drug me
down several rabbit trails - but finally I think I grabbed something
useful. You explain F/LOSS in a way that benefits them first - as your
introduction. One of the teachers I talked with pays a monthly or
yearly membership fee to several websites that provide educational
materials. From daily worksheets to what is essentially a datasheet.
So while there is nothing wrong with that - why not offer them
collaborative space somewhere - perhaps a small wiki instance and let
them build their own material collaboratively.

I'll admit I haven't though this out to its logical conclusion - but
once you get them to understand the concept it would appear to be
easier to communicate.

[A. Mani]

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 6:31 AM, David Nalley
<david.nalley(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  2008/8/19 Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt;:
> > From a perspective of bringing more open source to educators, what are
> > equivalents that Fedora could be doing here?
> >
> > Oh, and, uh, for less cash outlay.  :)
> >
>
>  So while there is nothing wrong with that - why not offer them
>  collaborative space somewhere - perhaps a small wiki instance and let
>  them build their own material collaboratively. 
A 'small wiki instance' may not be particularly motivating.
Plenty of applications including say Moodle, should be integrated.
Custom versions of these can make a difference. It is here that the
Fedora community can do something more.

Custom spins for educators are also not available.


Best

A. Mani





-- 
A. Mani
Member, Cal. Math. Soc