ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Max Spevack]

Hi there Ambassadors and Marketing folks:

So, a few things that I would like to clarify now that the news about 
the changes in Fedora leadership is public, as well as some additional 
words about the role we are hoping Jack can fill.

(1) FOSDEM and LinuxTag:  A bunch of DVDs are on their way to Gerold, 
as well as some funding for some specific expenses tha thave been talked 
about.  Paul and I need to have a discussion (and Paul needs to think 
about his own schedule) and figure out his travel plans.  LinuxTag is 
not until May or June, and I think Paul should definitely plan to go to 
that -- it was an excellent show last year, and the opportunity to 
connect with the Ambassadors in Europe is 100% worth the cost of the 
trip.  As for FOSDEM, that is much sooner, so I should just leave that 
to Paul to address.

There is travel money in my budget for the FPL to make 2 trips overseas 
per year for Fedora-related activities.  I spent a little bit too much 
money at LinuxTag last year (as you recall, Fedora took care of the bill 
for the hostel for all the Ambassadors), so the total budget is a little 
bit less this year, but it is enough for two trips.  Until we get Paul 
officially into Red Hat and in control of his own funds, I will spend 
that money on his behalf and with his input.

(2) The FAMSCO elections, FAMSCO chair, and Jack.

I have received a few private emails asking me how Jack's new role 
impacts Ambassadors and FAMSCO.

The elections that you just finished for FAMSCO as well as the 
voting/decision that FAMSCO made on who the Chair should be is a result 
that should not, and will not be changed.

Over the past years, there has always been someone within Red Hat who 
has been the "go to person" for the Ambassadors group in terms of 
getting budget, swag, organizational help, etc.  For a while it was 
Greg.  Alex Maier has helped with that over time.  During my time as 
Fedora Project Leader, I did most of this.  Now we want Jack to be that 
person.  So FAMSCO should continue to operate.  Jack and FAMSCO should 
work together on a variety of things:

* increasing the size of the Ambassadors project
* encouraging and promoting leadership throughout the world
* continuing to help in North America, Europe, and Brazil, where we have 
particularly strong ambassadors communitites
* Identifying problems with Ambassadors and being a leader and advisor 
in resolving them.

In summary: the community leadership that is in place is exactly what we 
want, and it must continue to thrive.  Jack's job is to be your FIRST 
point of contact in Red Hat when you need something.  Paul, myself, 
Greg, the names you already know -- we will also continue to support and 
help you.

(3) For the marketing guys, the same general theme that is expressed 
above is true for the non-Ambassador marketing parts of Fedora.  We want 
Jack to be a facilitator, a liason between the community and Red Hat, 
and to work alongside the community leaders to make Fedora marketing 
more efficient, more on-message, etc.

I expect Jack to attend Marketing and Ambassadors meetings, and the 
Fedora Board should ask Jack for frequent updates on these two critical 
parts of the Fedora Project.

Any questions -- feel free to email.  Let's try to have the discussion 
on-list.

Regards,
Max

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

<snip>
>  (3) For the marketing guys, the same general theme that is expressed
>  above is true for the non-Ambassador marketing parts of Fedora.  We want
>  Jack to be a facilitator, a liason between the community and Red Hat,
>  and to work alongside the community leaders to make Fedora marketing
>  more efficient, more on-message, etc.
>
>  I expect Jack to attend Marketing and Ambassadors meetings, and the
>  Fedora Board should ask Jack for frequent updates on these two critical
>  parts of the Fedora Project.
>
>  Any questions -- feel free to email.  Let's try to have the discussion
>  on-list.
>
>  Regards,
>  Max 
I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do as
in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used medium
and or used effectively.

Thats not to say it should be shut down rather maybe there should be a
discussion on how to improve it.  I would love input from Red Hat to see
where we can improve I believe there is someone on list.

I personally welcome someone from Red Hat being the go-to person since at
least there is a presence and discussions can improve the cooperation
between Fedora and Red Hat.

Cheers,

Marc

[Max Spevack]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:

>  I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do
>
>  as in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used 
>  medium and or used effectively. 
We had a really good discussion at FUDCon with about 10 people, 
including Leigh Day, who is on fedora-marketing-list and is Red Hat's 
corporate communications director.

I believe that Karsten and/or Paul has the notes and that they will make 
their way here.

Additionally, Jack will be in Raleigh this week and we will have a 
follow up meeting.

It is my hope that by the end of the week, we can have 3 or 4 major 
marketing initiatives, find some people to commit to each one and build 
some mini-communities of folks getting work done, and have Jack 
established in a role where he oversees progress on these various 
fronts, and reports back to the Fedora Board what is going on.

In short, a roadmap for Fedora Marketing that we work to implement, 
with Jack being accountable to the Fedora Board and Red Hat for results.

--Max

[Leigh Cantrell Day]

Max Spevack wrote:
>  On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
>  
> > I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do 
> > as in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used 
> > medium and or used effectively.
>  
>  We had a really good discussion at FUDCon with about 10 people, 
>  including Leigh Day, who is on fedora-marketing-list and is Red Hat's 
>  corporate communications director.
>  
>  I believe that Karsten and/or Paul has the notes and that they will make 
>  their way here.
>  
>  Additionally, Jack will be in Raleigh this week and we will have a 
>  follow up meeting.
>  
>  It is my hope that by the end of the week, we can have 3 or 4 major 
>  marketing initiatives, find some people to commit to each one and build 
>  some mini-communities of folks getting work done, and have Jack 
>  established in a role where he oversees progress on these various 
>  fronts, and reports back to the Fedora Board what is going on.
>  
>  In short, a roadmap for Fedora Marketing that we work to implement, with 
>  Jack being accountable to the Fedora Board and Red Hat for results.
>   
We made a ton of progress in just an hour yesterday.  A recap:

Problem Statements/Objective Discussion
----------------------------------------
o  Need communications mechanism(s)
o  Messaging: "We get sh*t done!"
o  Lack of spokesperson consistency:
	o  Lawless
	o  Need repetition of key themes
o  What is our Summit presence/FUDcon plan/other events plan?
o  Need to establish long-term comms plan/process
o  Competitors are announcing our stuff
SUMMARY:  WE WILL ESTABLISH A LONG-TERM, SUSTAINABLE MARKETING & 
COMMUNICATIONS PLAN BY MARCH 1.

Actions
--------
o  Call for spokesppl
o  Create Fedora Messaging Guide with the following themes (in this order):
	o  Folks/Friends
	o  Features
         o  Freedom
	o  First/Future
o  Develop an 'Events Kit' (turn key solution to establish consistency 
and process for all events attended by Fedora) and determine events plan 
based on available budget.
o  Determine future of FUDCon
	o  Leverage RH Summit
	o  Invite OSS press/bloggers

Summit Discussion
------------------
o  Call for papers happening now, community submissions needed.
http://www.redhat.com/apps/include/webforms/paper.html
o  Fedora presence at Summit:
	o  Fedora content in Open Source track (see above bullet)
	o  Designated hack-fest space for duration
	UPDATE: THIS HAS BEEN SECURED IN THE HYNES CENTER
	o  Recap of Hack-fest before Innovation Awards in general
	session on last day.
	o  Fedora booth

I am going to also send this update to the corp. mktg team at Red Hat to 
solicit more volunteers to help execute on this.  Please let me know if 
you have any questions/comments.

Thanks,
leigh

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jonathan Roberts]

Starting a new thread...

>  We made a ton of progress in just an hour yesterday.  A recap:
>  
>  Problem Statements/Objective Discussion
>  ----------------------------------------
>  o  Need communications mechanism(s)
>  o  Messaging: "We get sh*t done!" 
Is this the basic message we want to put out? I like it. We should also
apply it to ourselves, is far too easy to talk about stuff and not
actually produce any content :)

>  o  Lack of spokesperson consistency:
>  	o  Lawless
>  	o  Need repetition of key themes
>  o  What is our Summit presence/FUDcon plan/other events plan?
>  o  Need to establish long-term comms plan/process
>  o  Competitors are announcing our stuff 
Think we're already starting to do better here. Fedora 8 release the
interviews did a good job at highlighting the work that Fedora
developers are doing, and then the release summary (both of these are
extremely diggable too - I think this is a good thing!) brought these
all together niceley; also, Jon Poelstra's work as a feature wrangler is
superb in this respect as it is a reference where people can watch how
the features are developing and see it coming out of Fedora. 

We can definitely still do better here though, making it more explicit
and drawing together all of this information into one easily digestable
source perhaps?

Might be easier to handle this too if we had a central point to make
announcements from - news.fedoraproject.org has been talked about
recently but I'm not sure how this is going?

>  SUMMARY:  WE WILL ESTABLISH A LONG-TERM, SUSTAINABLE MARKETING &
>
>  COMMUNICATIONS PLAN BY MARCH 1.
>  
>  Actions
>  --------
>  o  Call for spokesppl 
What's meant by spokes-people? People willing to go to events and talk
on behalf of Fedora? Is this what the Ambassadors try to do now?!

>  o  Create Fedora Messaging Guide with the following themes (in this
> order):
>  	o  Folks/Friends
>  	o  Features
>           o  Freedom
>  	o  First/Future 
Is this similar to what was talked about for a press kit? I could see it
being useful as a reference for lay press people - and not so lay people
- to look at as well. 

>  o  Develop an 'Events Kit' (turn key solution to establish
> consistency 
>  and process for all events attended by Fedora) and determine events plan 
>  based on available budget. 
Sounds good - does this fit in with the work being done for a "Fedora
store"? Part of the goal for that was to make it easy for Ambassadors to
get items for events...

>  o  Determine future of FUDCon
>  	o  Leverage RH Summit
>  	o  Invite OSS press/bloggers
>  
>  Summit Discussion
>  ------------------
>  o  Call for papers happening now, community submissions needed.
>  http://www.redhat.com/apps/include/webforms/paper.html
>  o  Fedora presence at Summit:
>  	o  Fedora content in Open Source track (see above bullet)
>  	o  Designated hack-fest space for duration
>  	UPDATE: THIS HAS BEEN SECURED IN THE HYNES CENTER
>  	o  Recap of Hack-fest before Innovation Awards in general
>  	session on last day.
>  	o  Fedora booth 
Is FUDCon planned to take place at the same time as this? Perhaps this
info should be cross-posted to the other lists (devel, art etc) to make
it easy for people who would give interesting presentations to find!

>  
>  I am going to also send this update to the corp. mktg team at Red Hat to 
>  solicit more volunteers to help execute on this.  Please let me know if 
>  you have any questions/comments. 
Awesome...thanks for all the work :) And to everyone else who was at the
conference!

Jon

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jeffrey Tadlock]

On Jan 14, 2008 11:43 AM, Jonathan Roberts
<jonathan.roberts.uk(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Starting a new thread...
>  > o  Develop an 'Events Kit' (turn key solution to establish consistency
>  > and process for all events attended by Fedora) and determine events plan
>  > based on available budget.
>
>  Sounds good - does this fit in with the work being done for a "Fedora
>  store"? Part of the goal for that was to make it easy for Ambassadors to
>  get items for events... 
There is an Event Box page on the wiki here:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox

I created that page with the idea of the box being a booth in a box.
Something we can ship to an event for a Fedora Ambassador to use for
an "instant" booth.  I borrowed the idea from the Gnome Event box.

That project needs just a bit of momentum.  Mainly if some Ambassadors
and Marketing folks can review the proposed contents and if people
agree - the funds to assemble the box.

The Fedora Store SIG:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Store/

has also been trying to make it easier to get Fedora goods in both
Fedora Users' hands and to Ambassadors preparing for an event.  What
we have been working with is a two pronged approach.  The first prong
to use a 3rd party storefront to sell T-shirts, buttons, patches to
the public.  The second prong is to establish a list of vendors
Ambassadors have used in the past to order bulk quantities of
T-shirts, stickers, etc from.  This will hopefully allow a new
ambassador to order from a vendor who knows what we typically order,
while allowing for local production to reduce shipping costs.

We need input the Store as well and it is not too late to do so.
Visit the Store SIG wiki page and you can see the past meeting logs,
current action items and many other things we have worked on and
discussed.

Thanks,
Jeffrey

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jack Aboutboul]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 12:34 -0500, Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
>  There is an Event Box page on the wiki here:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox
>  
>  I created that page with the idea of the box being a booth in a box.
>  Something we can ship to an event for a Fedora Ambassador to use for
>  an "instant" booth.  I borrowed the idea from the Gnome Event box.
>  
>  That project needs just a bit of momentum.  Mainly if some Ambassadors
>  and Marketing folks can review the proposed contents and if people
>  agree - the funds to assemble the box.
>   
This is currently being worked on with the RH logistics people and is
quickly becoming a reality.  It was discussed over the weekend and I
will keep you posted about it.  Mainly, the thing to know right now is
that RH has a large logistics company which manages worlwide supply
chain stuff and we are trying to out the details with them in order to
create a web form through which an ambassador can order a kit for
different sized events...

Jack

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jeffrey Tadlock]

On Jan 15, 2008 12:34 PM, Jack Aboutboul <jaboutboul(a)speakeasy.net&gt; wrote:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 12:34 -0500, Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
>  > There is an Event Box page on the wiki here:
>  >
>  > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox
>  >
>  > I created that page with the idea of the box being a booth in a box.
>  > Something we can ship to an event for a Fedora Ambassador to use for
>  > an "instant" booth.  I borrowed the idea from the Gnome Event box.
>  >
>  > That project needs just a bit of momentum.  Mainly if some Ambassadors
>  > and Marketing folks can review the proposed contents and if people
>  > agree - the funds to assemble the box.
>  >
>
>  This is currently being worked on with the RH logistics people and is
>  quickly becoming a reality.  It was discussed over the weekend and I
>  will keep you posted about it.  Mainly, the thing to know right now is
>  that RH has a large logistics company which manages worlwide supply
>  chain stuff and we are trying to out the details with them in order to
>  create a web form through which an ambassador can order a kit for
>  different sized events... 
Great!  Please do keep us posted on it.  As someone that has worked on
the event box portion and a fair amount of time with the Fedora Store
SIG I have interests in what exactly is being discussed.

The kit for different sized events... Is that an event box that is
pretty much a booth in a box or is it "swag" as well?

With what is being discussed currently, does that mean we should be
putting any Event Box work and/or Fedora SIG work on hold as well?
The Fedora Store SIG has an Ambassador event material portion as well.
 I would hate to put more effort towards the Store SIG or Event Box if
this is duplicating efforts going on within Red Hat.

Thanks,
Jeffrey

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jack Aboutboul]

On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 17:37 -0500, Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
>  
>  With what is being discussed currently, does that mean we should be
>  putting any Event Box work and/or Fedora SIG work on hold as well?
>  The Fedora Store SIG has an Ambassador event material portion as well.
>   I would hate to put more effort towards the Store SIG or Event Box if
>  this is duplicating efforts going on within Red Hat. 
Do not put anything on hold.  All involved have been doing great work
and you should keep it up 100%.  I will say go ahead and keep working on
it and we will work with that and what is currently going on and support
it and bolster it.

What is going on currently is that we are planning everything we want to
try and do in the community and marketing areas for the next year.  Once
all that is solidified, we can work with more focus and hopefully
towards goals which are set in stone.  As for now, continue all the
great work you guys are doing and once this week is over, we should have
a better idea of where and how to steer things.  Don't be afraid to
lead!  We are here to support you!

Jack

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Jeffrey Tadlock]

On Jan 16, 2008 1:05 PM, Jack Aboutboul <jaboutboul(a)speakeasy.net&gt; wrote:
>  Do not put anything on hold.  All involved have been doing great
> work
>  and you should keep it up 100%.  I will say go ahead and keep working on
>  it and we will work with that and what is currently going on and support
>  it and bolster it. 
Excellent!  Sounds like a good plan to me.

Thanks for the additional info.

--Jeffrey

Road Map for Marketing [WAS ambassadors, marketing, etc]

[Paul Stauffer]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:43:27PM +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  > o  Fedora presence at Summit:
>  > 	o  Fedora content in Open Source track (see above bullet)
>  > 	o  Designated hack-fest space for duration
>  > 	UPDATE: THIS HAS BEEN SECURED IN THE HYNES CENTER
>  > 	o  Recap of Hack-fest before Innovation Awards in general
>  > 	session on last day.
>  > 	o  Fedora booth
>  
>  Is FUDCon planned to take place at the same time as this? Perhaps this 
Yes, the plan is to have another Boston FUDCon in connection with the Red
Hat Summit in June.

cheers,
- Paul

-- 
Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu&gt;
Manager of Research Computing
Computer Science Department
Boston University

[Jack Aboutboul]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 09:00 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
>  
>  I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do as
>  in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used medium
>  and or used effectively.
>  
>  Thats not to say it should be shut down rather maybe there should be a
>  discussion on how to improve it.  I would love input from Red Hat to see
>  where we can improve I believe there is someone on list.
>  
>  I personally welcome someone from Red Hat being the go-to person since at
>  least there is a presence and discussions can improve the cooperation
>  between Fedora and Red Hat. 
Hey everyone,

so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
two sources from which to get information and post information to might
be a little excessive,

What do you guys think?

Jack

[red_alert]

Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 09:00 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do as
> > in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used medium
> > and or used effectively.
> >
> > Thats not to say it should be shut down rather maybe there should be a
> > discussion on how to improve it.  I would love input from Red Hat to see
> > where we can improve I believe there is someone on list.
> >
> > I personally welcome someone from Red Hat being the go-to person since at
> > least there is a presence and discussions can improve the cooperation
> > between Fedora and Red Hat.
>  
>  Hey everyone,
>  
>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
>  may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  be a little excessive,
>  
>  What do you guys think?
>  
>  Jack
>   
Ambassadors are told to join the marketing list [1], so pretty every 
ambassador is subscribed to both lists. I don't know for the 
non-ambassador marketing guys, tho. Well, are there many marketing 
people who're not ambassadors as well? I'm reading from the same people 
on both lists.

There's not too much traffic on both lists but many things posted on one 
list could (or maybe should) be interesting for the other list too. And 
the important stuff is cross-posted anyway.

I vote for having only one list. I'm not even sure if we need two groups 
for this two tasks...I think most people that do one of them do the 
other too in some way.

[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join

Yours
red / SandroMathys

[Francesco Crippa]

----- "red_alert" <red_alert(a)the-psychiatry.ch&gt; wrote:
>  [...]
>  I vote for having only one list. I'm not even sure if we need two groups 
>  for this two tasks...I think most people that do one of them do the other too in some
> way.
>  [...] 
+1

bye
francesco

[Jon Stanley]

On Jan 13, 2008 9:25 PM, Jack Aboutboul <jaboutboul(a)speakeasy.net&gt; wrote:

>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different. 
Technically the ambassadors list is private with public archives.  I'm
not sure what the point of that was other than to make things
complicated :)  I'm all in favor of merging the two.

>   Although that
>  may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  be a little excessive, 
They all go to the same place :) Half the time I don't know which of a
dozen lists I'm replying to :)

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 00:31 -0500, Jon Stanley wrote:
>  On Jan 13, 2008 9:25 PM, Jack Aboutboul
> <jaboutboul(a)speakeasy.net&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  > subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  > a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  > although, technically, the purposes are very different.
>  
>  Technically the ambassadors list is private with public archives.  I'm
>  not sure what the point of that was other than to make things
>  complicated :)  I'm all in favor of merging the two. 
-1

I see the lists as having different purposes, and when they are
combined, it gets too noisy.

marketing-list == strategy, long term vision, big solutions
ambassadors-list == tactics, results, and mainly discussions of events,
how to attend, make happen, etc.

In particular, we are inviting marketing professionals to the
f-marketing-list, and I'm sensitive about blasting them with too much
stuff that is not relevant to the 'big marketing vision stuff.'

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

ambassadors, marketing, etc Listmerge

[simon]

Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 03:25:17 schrieb Jack Aboutboul:
>  Hey everyone,
>
>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different.   


Hi,

there was a Discussion 
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2007-February/msg...
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-February/msg00...

and a vote in Feb. 2007 and the conclusions not merging the lists
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-February/msg000...



cheers joerg
-- 
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

ambassadors, marketing, etc Listmerge

[Jonathan Roberts]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 08:51 +0100, JoergSimon wrote:
>  Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 03:25:17 schrieb Jack Aboutboul:
>  > Hey everyone,
>  >
>  > so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  > subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  > a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  > although, technically, the purposes are very different.   
Oh and one more thing...

Let's consider the possibility of growth: all the talk lately seems to
be of "revitilising" the marketing project which is awesome, but to do
this the community is going to have to grow (hopefully) and that will
probably increase the amount of traffic on list.

Jon

ambassadors, marketing, etc Listmerge

[Francesco Ugolini]

Yes, the last year i proposed the merger of Fedora Ambs List and Marketing
list (there is a wiki page fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador/MergingIssue ),
and it failed, because people materially were divided in + and - .

I think Jack make only a proposal to collect some new feedbacks, i think we
have to wait for a official proposals and then understand if there are some
new reasons, ideas etc...

Moreover i had to read his mail like an input for the future, I think it
could be a leap ahead to a new era.

Regards

Francesco

2008/1/14, Jonathan Roberts <jonathan.roberts.uk(a)googlemail.com&gt;:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 08:51 +0100, JoergSimon wrote:
>  > Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 03:25:17 schrieb Jack Aboutboul:
>  > > Hey everyone,
>  > >
>  > > so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  > > subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it
>  is
>  > > a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  > > although, technically, the purposes are very different.
>
>  Oh and one more thing...
>
>  Let's consider the possibility of growth: all the talk lately seems to
>  be of "revitilising" the marketing project which is awesome, but to do
>  this the community is going to have to grow (hopefully) and that will
>  probably increase the amount of traffic on list.
>
>  Jon
>
>  --
>  Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
>  Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>

[Jonathan Roberts]

On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 21:25 -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 09:00 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
>  > 
>  > I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do as
>  > in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used medium
>  > and or used effectively.
>  > 
>  > Thats not to say it should be shut down rather maybe there should be a
>  > discussion on how to improve it.  I would love input from Red Hat to see
>  > where we can improve I believe there is someone on list.
>  > 
>  > I personally welcome someone from Red Hat being the go-to person since at
>  > least there is a presence and discussions can improve the cooperation
>  > between Fedora and Red Hat.
>  
>  Hey everyone,
>  
>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
>  may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  be a little excessive,
>  
>  What do you guys think? 
Taking the other view from everyone else: I'm not subscribed to the
Ambassadors' list and didn't plan to be either. I get plenty of mail
through my inbox already and so try to be selective with what I
subscribe to. imho while the two lists serve two groups with similar
goals, surely the methods they use to go about achieving them are
different!?

> From my point of view (this could be complete rubbish, be warned :P),
> it 
seems that on the marketing list our main aims are along the lines of
producing content and making sure that when the press - whether they're
lay press or mainstream - talk about Fedora the information they use is
accurate and fair; on the Ambassadors' list I've always assumed the main
goal to be how best to represent Fedora at conferences, LUGs, working
with the free media program etc. 

Of course these goals aren't mutually exclusive and it makes sense for
people working on the one to work on the other too, but I feel there is
a lot each group can achieve independently of each other too. Still, if
people feel that our purposes can best be served by merging the two
lists, I would be more than happy to go along with it.

The question of how effective the current projects are (and this goes
well beyond the mailing lists) is another question entirely! And
probably one for another thread...

Best wishes to all, 

Jon
>  
>  Jack
>

[red_alert]

Jonathan Roberts <jonathan.roberts.uk(a)googlemail.com&gt; hat am 14. Januar 2008 um
09:50 geschrieben:

>  >From my point of view (this could be complete rubbish, be warned
> :P), it
>  seems that on the marketing list our main aims are along the lines of
>  producing content and making sure that when the press - whether they're
>  lay press or mainstream - talk about Fedora the information they use is
>  accurate and fair; on the Ambassadors' list I've always assumed the main
>  goal to be how best to represent Fedora at conferences, LUGs, working
>  with the free media program etc.  
I agree on the aims. But I think it's very important that each group knows what
the other group does.

IMHO Marketing should generate press-stuff for/about Ambassadors' events too.
And Ambassadors should know what Marketing's message to the world is as the
Ambassadors shouldn't say the opposite of it. They should also be able to refer
to Fedora's appearances in the press.


I think that'd be the ideal case, if both would refer to each other's work in
order to spread the word about Fedora as good as possible and to reach the
people over both ways (press and in person) with the very same message.

-- red / SandroMathys

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 10:40 +0100, red_alert(a)the-psychiatry.ch wrote:

>  I agree on the aims. But I think it's very important that each
> group
>  knows what the other group does. 
This is true, and fortunately we have Fedora News and can subscribe to
multiple lists.  The lists are about different topics and in my
experience haven't blended too well.

Much of the content that is cross-posted to the two lists could be on
just one list.  With mail filters, I end up with half of the discussion
in one list and half in the other, and there is no reason it couldn't be
all on one list.

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

[simon]

Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 03:25:17 schrieb Jack Aboutboul:

>  What do you guys think? 

Ok if this is necessary to bring this up again.
-1
 for a merge with the same reasons than last year - 

-- 
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

[Robert Scheck]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
>  may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  be a little excessive,
>  
>  What do you guys think? 
Sorry for being unpolite now, but why the hell don't you ask the people on
the ambassadors list? Maybe I should ask here and now, whether we can merge
devel-list with the marketing-list as well? ;-)

Please DO NOT MERGE the lists, we need a low-traffic (?) list for all the
ambassadors which only belongs to the ambassadors. Marketing is important;
yes and blah-foo and all the other arguments, but I mostly don't care about
the marketing stuff. I'm only less interested about this and that article
of Fedora in newspapers/magazines/websites/... - maybe others are thinking
so as well.

My 0.1 cent for a possible merge of the lists: -1000 :)


Greetings,
  Robert

[Ambassadors] Re: ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Bart Couvreur]

Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 20:26 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Robert
Scheck:
>  On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>  > so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  > subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  > a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  > although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
>  > may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  > two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  > be a little excessive,
>  > 
>  > What do you guys think?
>  
>  Sorry for being unpolite now, but why the hell don't you ask the people on
>  the ambassadors list? Maybe I should ask here and now, whether we can merge
>  devel-list with the marketing-list as well? ;-) 
Probably because we are expected to be on the marketing-list too :-)
>  
>  Please DO NOT MERGE the lists, we need a low-traffic (?) list for all the
>  ambassadors which only belongs to the ambassadors. Marketing is important;
>  yes and blah-foo and all the other arguments, but I mostly don't care about
>  the marketing stuff. I'm only less interested about this and that article
>  of Fedora in newspapers/magazines/websites/... - maybe others are thinking
>  so as well. 
Partly true. I do agree that all the "Fedora in the news" isn't really
that interesting, maybe this should be moved off to the news-list. I do
get the basic idea behind it, and in a sense it's good: put all guys
promoting Fedora on the same page and being sure that we bring the same
message. If you think about it: we *are* as Ambassadors also doing
marketing for Fedora. Just more in a face-to-face fashion, compared to
press releases, interviews with the devels.

Some people don't want to be Ambassadors but are doing a kick-ass job on
marketing, and we as Ambassadors do that too, but we're both with the
same goal: promoting Fedora
>  
>  My 0.1 cent for a possible merge of the lists: -1000 :) 
So I'd be okay with the merge *if* some stuff gets sorted out.

+1 last year, stays +1 this year.

Bart


Small BTW: last years vote was slightly positive in the favor of
merging, so it's not bad to re-evaluate what was said back then.

-- 
Bart <couf(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; <couf(a)skynet.be&gt;
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D  3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93

[Ambassadors] Re: ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Paul Stauffer]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 08:48:21PM +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote:
>  Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 20:26 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Robert
>  Scheck:
>  > Sorry for being unpolite now, but why the hell don't you ask the people on
>  > the ambassadors list? Maybe I should ask here and now, whether we can merge
>  > devel-list with the marketing-list as well? ;-)
>  
>  Probably because we are expected to be on the marketing-list too :-) 
Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of the list admins (Max? Thomas?) to
do a quick diff of the membership lists of these two lists and see if there
is as much of an intersection as we're assuming.  If it turns out that f-a-l
membership is primarily just a subset of f-m-l membership, then the question
is really just whether the ambassadors want to continue to have a separate
list or not.  And conversely, if the intersection is smaller than we're
assuming, then that might imply that a merger is unwarranted.

Being on both lists myself, and recognizing the close interaction of the
work of both groups, and thus the extremely heavy cross-posting between the
two lists, I myself would be happy for a merger, just to cut down the number
of duplicate messages in my inbox.  But, y'know, I can deal either way. :)

cheers,
- Paul

-- 
Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu&gt;
Manager of Research Computing
Computer Science Department
Boston University

[Ambassadors] Re: ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Thomas Chung]

On 14/01/2008, Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu&gt; wrote:
>  Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of the list admins (Max?
> Thomas?) to
>  do a quick diff of the membership lists of these two lists and see if there
>  is as much of an intersection as we're assuming.  If it turns out that f-a-l
>  membership is primarily just a subset of f-m-l membership, then the question
>  is really just whether the ambassadors want to continue to have a separate
>  list or not.  And conversely, if the intersection is smaller than we're
>  assuming, then that might imply that a merger is unwarranted.
>
>  Being on both lists myself, and recognizing the close interaction of the
>  work of both groups, and thus the extremely heavy cross-posting between the
>  two lists, I myself would be happy for a merger, just to cut down the number
>  of duplicate messages in my inbox.  But, y'know, I can deal either way. :) 
Back in March, Karsten Wade touched on this issue[1] already what's
considered OffTopic[2].

[1] http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2007-March/msg0001...
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic#fedora-ambassadors-list

Basically, fedora-ambassadors-list is for discussions amongst
Ambassadors about event coordination and other tactical or project
business needs.

Other discussions should take place in fedora-marketing-list.
Regards,
-- 
Thomas Chung
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung

[Ambassadors] Re: ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Robert Scheck]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Thomas Chung wrote:
>  Basically, fedora-ambassadors-list is for discussions amongst
>  Ambassadors about event coordination and other tactical or project
>  business needs.
>
>  Other discussions should take place in fedora-marketing-list. 
Thomas, thank you :)

And as long as ambassadors are something else than marketing, please move
that merging crap to /dev/null - otherwise, I'll change my .procmail rules
to move the merged list mails then to /dev/null forever...sorry.

Discussions about events don't have to be on marketing as well as press
stuff, obvious news links and articles have not to end on ambassadors. And
everybody who doesn't get this huge difference should re-think that before
answering, please.


Greetings,
  Robert

[Ambassadors] Re: ambassadors, marketing, etc

[Fabian Affolter]

Robert Scheck wrote:
>  On Mon, 14 Jan 2008, Thomas Chung wrote:
> > Basically, fedora-ambassadors-list is for discussions amongst
> > Ambassadors about event coordination and other tactical or project
> > business needs.
> >
> > Other discussions should take place in fedora-marketing-list.
>  
>  Thomas, thank you :)
>  
>  And as long as ambassadors are something else than marketing, please move
>  that merging crap to /dev/null - otherwise, I'll change my .procmail rules
>  to move the merged list mails then to /dev/null forever...sorry.
>  
>  Discussions about events don't have to be on marketing as well as press
>  stuff, obvious news links and articles have not to end on ambassadors. And
>  everybody who doesn't get this huge difference should re-think that before
>  answering, please. 
+1

Fabian

[John Poelstra]

Jack Aboutboul said the following on 01/13/2008 09:25 PM Pacific Time:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 09:00 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > I think the marketing list needs to figure out what it is going to do as
> > in direction wise.  I'm not to sure that it is an effectively used  
medium
> > and or used effectively.
> >
> > Thats not to say it should be shut down rather maybe there should be a
> > discussion on how to improve it.  I would love input from Red Hat to see
> > where we can improve I believe there is someone on list.
> >
> > I personally welcome someone from Red Hat being the go-to person  
since at
> > least there is a presence and discussions can improve the
> cooperation
> > between Fedora and Red Hat.
>
>  Hey everyone,
>
>  so my first question would be to ask this, how many people currently
>  subscribe to both this and ambassadors-list?  If people feel like it is
>  a significant enough number, maybe we should consider merging the two,
>  although, technically, the purposes are very different.  Although that
>  may be true, if we have a significant number of dual memberships, having
>  two sources from which to get information and post information to might
>  be a little excessive,
>
>  What do you guys think?
>
>  Jack
>  
I think the fedora-marketing-list should become a 'development' list of 
sorts--a hard core place for *actually* doing and creating "marketing" 
for upcoming Fedora events and releases while also focusing on 
increasing the power and awareness of the Fedora brand.

I think this list should be more about marketing activities and less 
about news stories about Fedora.  If we want a place to collect news 
stories about Fedora I think those should go to a separate list... 
something like fedora-news-monitor.

John

[Jon Stanley]

On Jan 14, 2008 8:21 PM, John Poelstra <poelstra(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  stories about Fedora I think those should go to a separate list...
>  something like fedora-news-monitor. 
+1

[Jonathan Roberts]

>  I think this list should be more about marketing activities and less
>
>  about news stories about Fedora.  If we want a place to collect news 
>  stories about Fedora I think those should go to a separate list... 
>  something like fedora-news-monitor. 
I don't have a problem with this but I think we ought to do something
more useful with it than sharing it with each other. A start would be
creating a page where we list all of the press appearances of Fedora,
and then digging and slashdotting everything we can about Fedora that's
worthwhile. 

This would be useful marketing...

Jon

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 20:21 -0500, John Poelstra wrote:

>  I think this list should be more about marketing activities and less
>
>  about news stories about Fedora.  If we want a place to collect news 
>  stories about Fedora I think those should go to a separate list... 
>  something like fedora-news-monitor. 
+1

We have something similar at Red Hat, which gets a fair amount of press,
and I'm always glad that I can go to that list to read about it without
having to fill a more general discussion list with news items.

Oddly, here are the solutions in the air:

A. Merge f-m-l and f-a-l
B. Leave f-m-l and f-a-l as they are with topic enforcement
C. Leave f-m-l and f-a-l as they are with topic enforcement, and peel
news items and discussion of same off to a new list

So, either one, two, or three lists. :)

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 22:14 -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
>  On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 20:21 -0500, John Poelstra wrote:
>  
>  > I think this list should be more about marketing activities and less 
>  > about news stories about Fedora.  If we want a place to collect news 
>  > stories about Fedora I think those should go to a separate list... 
>  > something like fedora-news-monitor.
>  
>  +1
>  
>  We have something similar at Red Hat, which gets a fair amount of press,
>  and I'm always glad that I can go to that list to read about it without
>  having to fill a more general discussion list with news items.
>  
>  Oddly, here are the solutions in the air:
>  
>  A. Merge f-m-l and f-a-l
>  B. Leave f-m-l and f-a-l as they are with topic enforcement
>  C. Leave f-m-l and f-a-l as they are with topic enforcement, and peel
>  news items and discussion of same off to a new list
>  
>  So, either one, two, or three lists. :)
>  
>  - Karsten 
I pick C :)