RFC: Initial text for users' flyer

[Ankur Sinha]

Hi,

Would someone please have a few minutes to review the initial text that
I've drafted for the users' flyer?
https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/139

The git repository is here:
https://github.com/sanjayankur31/fedora-release-flyer-users/tree/devel/src

(I decided to throw it on github so any one can fork it and add/remove
stuff)
-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

Join Fedora! Come talk to us!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

[Joe Brockmeier]

On Tue, Oct 08, 2013 at 08:45:16PM +1100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  Would someone please have a few minutes to review the initial text
> that
>  I've drafted for the users' flyer?
>  https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/139
>  
>  The git repository is here:
>  https://github.com/sanjayankur31/fedora-release-flyer-users/tree/devel/src 
Note this is non-obvious in the Trac ticket. It points to the master
branch and that only has a LICENSE and README. 

>  (I decided to throw it on github so any one can fork it and
> add/remove
>  stuff) 
Probably better to do this on the wiki, IMHO. Not everyone on the
Marketing team is going to have a GitHub account, and may not be
comfortable using git. Can we do this on the wiki?

Best, 

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Open Source and Standards, Red Hat
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/

[Ankur Sinha]

On Tue, 2013-10-08 at 09:20 -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>  Probably better to do this on the wiki, IMHO. Not everyone on the
>  Marketing team is going to have a GitHub account, and may not be
>  comfortable using git. Can we do this on the wiki? 
Moved text to wiki[1]

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Home_users
-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

Join Fedora! Come talk to us!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

[Mike Ruckman]

On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:02:51 +1100
Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On Tue, 2013-10-08 at 09:20 -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>  > Probably better to do this on the wiki, IMHO. Not everyone on the
>  > Marketing team is going to have a GitHub account, and may not be
>  > comfortable using git. Can we do this on the wiki?
>  
>  Moved text to wiki[1]
>  
>  [1]
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Home_users 
Looking at the wiki, it says "Apache Open Office" [1]. Would it be
better to just say LibreOffice? This is the verbiage I propose:

"Fedora 20 includes LibreOffice, a popular free and open-source
software suite for word processing, spreadsheets, presentations and
more! LibreOffice is the default office suite in Fedora and ships with
tons of features and languages (with more being added constantly)."

There might be something regarding office suites in Fedora I'm not
aware of - but the original (copied from the release notes, iirc)
seemed a bit terse. 

Any thoughts?

// Roshi

[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Home_users#Apach...

[Joe Brockmeier]

Hi all, 

First, thanks to Ankur for taking a crack at this. It's always tougher
to put the first draft on paper (so to speak) than to revise it. Thanks
much for this! 

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 08:42:58AM -0600, Mike Ruckman wrote:
>  On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 10:02:51 +1100
>  Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > On Tue, 2013-10-08 at 09:20 -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>  > > Probably better to do this on the wiki, IMHO. Not everyone on the
>  > > Marketing team is going to have a GitHub account, and may not be
>  > > comfortable using git. Can we do this on the wiki?
>  > 
>  > Moved text to wiki[1]
>  > 
>  > [1]
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/For_Ambassadors/Home_users
>  
>  Looking at the wiki, it says "Apache Open Office" [1]. Would it be
>  better to just say LibreOffice? This is the verbiage I propose: 
I think (?) that the point of including AOO is that it's new to Fedora
20? 

Whether it's worth highlighting in the flier is something I'm not sure
about. Thoughts?

FWIW, I think it'd be good to kick around what should go into a user's
flier - and focusing on new features may not be the right way to go. 

If we assume that a user is new to Fedora, they don't really care if a
feature/application appeared in Fedora 20, 19, or Fedora Core 1. They
care that it exists. So how does the content of the flier speak to what
our target users (target here == consumer desktop users, right?) want?

ARM - very cool feature, probably not worth mentioning to this audience
unless it's related to things like Raspberry Pi.

GNOME - worth talking about the desktop, probably not from the
perspective (exclusively) of its new features. What's awesome about
GNOME for users?

Sugar - if we think a large percentage of the people reading the flier
are parents, might be worth mentioning this.

Enlightenment/KDE - If we think the audience is Linux-savvy, it might be
worth getting into desktop choice. If the audience is coming from
Windows/Mac OS X, we're muddying the waters trying to talk about 3x
desktop environments. 

Application Installer - Yes! We should highlight 1) how easy it is to
install software and 2) the enormous selection of software that's at a
users' fingertips when they install Fedora. 

Bluez 5 - if we need to mention bluetooth support, sure - but most users
aren't going to know Bluez 5 from Blue's Clues. 

What else do we need to highlight for users? Thoughts, comments, flames?

Best, 

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Open Source and Standards, Red Hat
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/

[Mike Ruckman]

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:29:34 -0500
Joe Brockmeier <jzb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  > Looking at the wiki, it says "Apache Open Office" [1].
> Would it be
>  > better to just say LibreOffice? This is the verbiage I propose:
>  
>  I think (?) that the point of including AOO is that it's new to Fedora
>  20? 
>  
>  Whether it's worth highlighting in the flier is something I'm not sure
>  about. Thoughts?
>  FWIW, I think it'd be good to kick around what
>  should go into a user's flier - and focusing on new features may not
>  be the right way to go.  
That makes sense. I did some reading and it looks like AOO is a new
addition to F20. I concur; we need to determine what kinds of things
should go into a flier before we get too bogged down in the details. 

>  If we assume that a user is new to Fedora, they don't really care
> if a
>  feature/application appeared in Fedora 20, 19, or Fedora Core 1. They
>  care that it exists. So how does the content of the flier speak to
>  what our target users (target here == consumer desktop users, right?)
>  want? 
 
I think there might be several different users we could be targeting.
Each of those target audiences could end up needing a different flier.
For instance, selling a developer on Fedora at a Linux User Group would
take different talking points than convincing my mother to use Fedora.

A couple different types of users (not a complete list:p):
 - Developer (could even be different for specific development tasks,
   web vs application for example)
 - Power-users
 - End User (Word processing, email and browsing the web)
 - Users tired of Windows looking to switch

It might be a good idea to get some verbiage from the different SIGs
since they probably already have some of this groundwork done. If they
don't, then we can work with them to create something they can use.

>  ARM - very cool feature, probably not worth mentioning to this
>  audience unless it's related to things like Raspberry Pi. 
We don't actually support the Raspberry Pi, as it's an outdated ARM
processor and you can't run the kernel the Pi uses without the
proprietary blobs (it's not completely open source). [1]

>  GNOME - worth talking about the desktop, probably not from the
>  perspective (exclusively) of its new features. What's awesome about
>  GNOME for users? 
This is dependent on the type of user we're targeting. End Users won't
care (most likely) but developers/power-users might. End users would
like the Google Plus and Facebook integration.

>  Sugar - if we think a large percentage of the people reading the
> flier
>  are parents, might be worth mentioning this.
>  
>  Enlightenment/KDE - If we think the audience is Linux-savvy, it might
>  be worth getting into desktop choice. If the audience is coming from
>  Windows/Mac OS X, we're muddying the waters trying to talk about 3x
>  desktop environments.  
+1 for this. We want to make sure the message is clear and concise.

>  Application Installer - Yes! We should highlight 1) how easy it is
> to
>  install software and 2) the enormous selection of software that's at a
>  users' fingertips when they install Fedora.  
This is a good thing to highlight; especially for End Users.

>  Bluez 5 - if we need to mention bluetooth support, sure - but most
>  users aren't going to know Bluez 5 from Blue's Clues. 
>  
>  What else do we need to highlight for users? Thoughts, comments,
>  flames?
>  
>  Best, 
>  
>  jzb 
That's all I have for now. 

// Roshi

[1] For those that are interested, there is a project called Pidora
that is a remix of Fedora for the Pi. http://pidora.ca/

[Ankur Sinha]

On Thu, 2013-10-10 at 16:07 -0600, Mike Ruckman wrote:
>  On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:29:34 -0500
>  Joe Brockmeier <jzb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > > Looking at the wiki, it says "Apache Open Office" [1]. Would it be
>  > > better to just say LibreOffice? This is the verbiage I propose:
>  > 
>  > I think (?) that the point of including AOO is that it's new to Fedora
>  > 20? 
>  > 
>  > Whether it's worth highlighting in the flier is something I'm not sure
>  > about. Thoughts?
>  > FWIW, I think it'd be good to kick around what
>  > should go into a user's flier - and focusing on new features may not
>  > be the right way to go. 
>  
>  That makes sense. I did some reading and it looks like AOO is a new
>  addition to F20. I concur; we need to determine what kinds of things
>  should go into a flier before we get too bogged down in the details.  
+1. I did ask for comments here:

https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/139#comment:3


>  
>  > If we assume that a user is new to Fedora, they don't really care if a
>  > feature/application appeared in Fedora 20, 19, or Fedora Core 1. They
>  > care that it exists. So how does the content of the flier speak to
>  > what our target users (target here == consumer desktop users, right?)
>  > want?
>   
>  I think there might be several different users we could be targeting.
>  Each of those target audiences could end up needing a different flier.
>  For instance, selling a developer on Fedora at a Linux User Group would
>  take different talking points than convincing my mother to use Fedora.
>  
>  A couple different types of users (not a complete list:p):
>   - Developer (could even be different for specific development tasks,
>     web vs application for example) 
https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/140

>   - Power-users 
I hadn't thought of this category. Assuming that I'm a power user
myself, the user and developer flyers would probably be enough to tell
me what's going on, or to lead me to the right places to look up stuff
in more detail. 

>   - End User (Word processing, email and browsing the web) 
Already working on this one.

>   - Users tired of Windows looking to switch
>   
-1

First, I don't understand what such marketing collateral will contain.
Second, if it's going to compare Fedora/Linux to Windows, I add another
-1. 

For instance, I don't see the point of writing "Libreoffice is an
alternative for Microsoft Office" rather than "Libreoffice is a complete
office suite with a word processor, calculator....". We're not an
alternative to Windows, and I'm not in favour of putting out anything
that makes people think, "Ah, an alternative to Windows..", in the
tiniest way. We are a different operating system, in our own right. The
users/developers flyers should be enough for this category?

>  It might be a good idea to get some verbiage from the different SIGs
>  since they probably already have some of this groundwork done. If they
>  don't, then we can work with them to create something they can use. 
I'm not sure about this. Like I've commented here[1], for example, most
of the Change pages do not have release notes. I've grabbed this stuff
from upstream websites that talk about the new versions.

[1]
https://github.com/sanjayankur31/fedora-release-flyer-users/blob/devel/sr...

It might be worth talking to the SIGs. They're busy handling their
packages and bug reports to make progress before the deadlines, though. 

>  
>  > ARM - very cool feature, probably not worth mentioning to this
>  > audience unless it's related to things like Raspberry Pi.
>  
>  We don't actually support the Raspberry Pi, as it's an outdated ARM
>  processor and you can't run the kernel the Pi uses without the
>  proprietary blobs (it's not completely open source). [1] 
+1. I initially included R pi and then removed it since it includes
blobs.
-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

Join Fedora! Come talk to us!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

[Mike Ruckman]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:15:51 +1100
Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  > That makes sense. I did some reading and it looks like AOO is a
> new
>  > addition to F20. I concur; we need to determine what kinds of things
>  > should go into a flier before we get too bogged down in the
>  > details. 
>  
>  +1. I did ask for comments here:
>  
>  https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/139#comment:3 
I'll start commenting on tickets :)

>  >  - Users tired of Windows looking to switch
>  > 
>  
>  -1
>  
>  First, I don't understand what such marketing collateral will contain.
>  Second, if it's going to compare Fedora/Linux to Windows, I add
>  another -1. 
>  
>  For instance, I don't see the point of writing "Libreoffice is an
>  alternative for Microsoft Office" rather than "Libreoffice is a
>  complete office suite with a word processor, calculator....". We're
>  not an alternative to Windows, and I'm not in favour of putting out
>  anything that makes people think, "Ah, an alternative to Windows..",
>  in the tiniest way. We are a different operating system, in our own
>  right. The users/developers flyers should be enough for this category? 
I wasn't proposing to have a flier that said "Hey, switch from
Windows!" and handing it out at MSDN conferences or anything like that.
I was merely meaning we should have something with verbiage for users
of other OS's that are looking for something new. I picked Windows as
the example because it's the biggest share of home users in the market.
I've also worked in Windows shops before, and there's almost always
people looking to switch - it might be good to have something to suit
those people. 

From what I can tell, for home users, the comparison (spoken or not)
will always be against Windows. It's not a matter of making the
comparison - we're already in it. [1] Now it's a question of framing the
issue the best way for Fedora from a marketing perspective. We don't
have to make a direct comparison in our literature, but we should keep
it in mind as we produce more. Especially if we're looking to increase
desktop adoption.

>  > It might be a good idea to get some verbiage from the different
> SIGs
>  > since they probably already have some of this groundwork done. If
>  > they don't, then we can work with them to create something they can
>  > use.
>  
>  I'm not sure about this. Like I've commented here[1], for example,
>  most of the Change pages do not have release notes. I've grabbed this
>  stuff from upstream websites that talk about the new versions. 
Is this something the Docs team normally does, or a gap we could try to
get volunteers to fill?

>  It might be worth talking to the SIGs. They're busy handling
> their
>  packages and bug reports to make progress before the deadlines,
>  though.  
I just thought we could find out if they had any plans on this front -
or wanted help with it. 

FWIW - I think this is some good discussion :)

[1] This is also us against OS X. Basically anything bigger than us in
the market-segment we're looking at.

// Roshi

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

I would like to suggest to use our design for flyers, and if possible
for rollup banners, but I also need a review. HTH.

https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/298

Zoltan

2013/10/11 Mike Ruckman <roshi(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 12:15:51 +1100
>  Ankur Sinha <sanjay.ankur(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
> > > That makes sense. I did some reading and it looks like AOO is a new
> > > addition to F20. I concur; we need to determine what kinds of things
> > > should go into a flier before we get too bogged down in the
> > > details.
> >
> > +1. I did ask for comments here:
> >
> > https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/139#comment:3
>
>  I'll start commenting on tickets :)
>
> > >  - Users tired of Windows looking to switch
> > >
> >
> > -1
> >
> > First, I don't understand what such marketing collateral will contain.
> > Second, if it's going to compare Fedora/Linux to Windows, I add
> > another -1.
> >
> > For instance, I don't see the point of writing "Libreoffice is an
> > alternative for Microsoft Office" rather than "Libreoffice is a
> > complete office suite with a word processor, calculator....". We're
> > not an alternative to Windows, and I'm not in favour of putting out
> > anything that makes people think, "Ah, an alternative to Windows..",
> > in the tiniest way. We are a different operating system, in our own
> > right. The users/developers flyers should be enough for this category?
>
>  I wasn't proposing to have a flier that said "Hey, switch from
>  Windows!" and handing it out at MSDN conferences or anything like that.
>  I was merely meaning we should have something with verbiage for users
>  of other OS's that are looking for something new. I picked Windows as
>  the example because it's the biggest share of home users in the market.
>  I've also worked in Windows shops before, and there's almost always
>  people looking to switch - it might be good to have something to suit
>  those people.
>
>  From what I can tell, for home users, the comparison (spoken or not)
>  will always be against Windows. It's not a matter of making the
>  comparison - we're already in it. [1] Now it's a question of framing the
>  issue the best way for Fedora from a marketing perspective. We don't
>  have to make a direct comparison in our literature, but we should keep
>  it in mind as we produce more. Especially if we're looking to increase
>  desktop adoption.
>
> > > It might be a good idea to get some verbiage from the different SIGs
> > > since they probably already have some of this groundwork done. If
> > > they don't, then we can work with them to create something they can
> > > use.
> >
> > I'm not sure about this. Like I've commented here[1], for example,
> > most of the Change pages do not have release notes. I've grabbed this
> > stuff from upstream websites that talk about the new versions.
>
>  Is this something the Docs team normally does, or a gap we could try to
>  get volunteers to fill?
>
> > It might be worth talking to the SIGs. They're busy handling their
> > packages and bug reports to make progress before the deadlines,
> > though.
>
>  I just thought we could find out if they had any plans on this front -
>  or wanted help with it.
>
>  FWIW - I think this is some good discussion :)
>
>  [1] This is also us against OS X. Basically anything bigger than us in
>  the market-segment we're looking at.
>
>  // Roshi
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing 


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7

[Joe Brockmeier]

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 04:07:54PM -0600, Mike Ruckman wrote:
>  On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:29:34 -0500
>  Joe Brockmeier <jzb(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  > If we assume that a user is new to Fedora, they don't really care if a
>  > feature/application appeared in Fedora 20, 19, or Fedora Core 1. They
>  > care that it exists. So how does the content of the flier speak to
>  > what our target users (target here == consumer desktop users, right?)
>  > want?
>   
>  I think there might be several different users we could be targeting.
>  Each of those target audiences could end up needing a different flier.
>  For instance, selling a developer on Fedora at a Linux User Group would
>  take different talking points than convincing my mother to use Fedora. 
Wait, you haven't convinced your mother to use Fedora yet? 

But, yes. Different audiences. But we might want to start with a flier
that addresses the largest possible audience, and then diverge as
needed. We've already done a cloud flier recently - I think developer is
also planned?

>  We don't actually support the Raspberry Pi, as it's an
> outdated ARM
>  processor and you can't run the kernel the Pi uses without the
>  proprietary blobs (it's not completely open source). [1] 
Ah, yeah. Sorry - my point was just that ARM, in general, is probably
not a feature that is going to pull in the Average User.

Best, 

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Open Source and Standards, Red Hat
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/

[Ankur Sinha]

On Thu, 2013-10-10 at 14:29 -0500, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>  What else do we need to highlight for users? Thoughts, comments,
>  flames? 
When I created the draft, I had "what's new in Fedora 20?" in mind. The
text, therefore, only concentrates on new stuff, not the generic stuff
that comes with Fedora. 

The flyer can:
- talk about fedora stuff for users in general
- talk about *new* stuff for users (Changes)
- mix a little of both

From the recent comments, I think we're leaning towards the third, but
it'll change quite a few things. For instance, instead of separate
sections for Gnome3.10, KDE4.11, Sugar0.100, and E17, we'll have
something like:

== Updated desktop interfaces! ==
Fedora 20 updates the original set of available desktops: Gnome to 3.10,
KDE to 4.11, Sugar to 0.100, XFCE, MATE, LXDE. These latest versions
come with a bunch of fixes, optimisations and new shiny application
sets. Fedora 20 also includes the powerful, yet flexible, Enlightment
desktop shell which was released after a decade of development.

Similarly, instead of Apache OOO and Libreoffice, we'll have:
== Not one, but two office suites! ==
etc.

There can be a new section that just lists the other stuff:
== What else?  ==
- Better bluetooth
- blah
- blah

Basically, it changes the viewpoint.

The major drawback is that the new stuff doesn't get as much lime light
as I'd like it to get (since we're proud of showcasing newest available
software in each release). I'd like to have a flyer dedicated to
changes, one that only goes "What's new in Fedora 20?". It's what most
of our users look forward to in a new release: "Ooooo! What's Fedora
changing this time? Is there a new software set?" 

Thoughts?
-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

Join Fedora! Come talk to us!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

[Ankur Sinha]

On Fri, 2013-10-11 at 11:59 +1100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  - talk about fedora stuff for users in general 
There's a generic Fedora flyer that needs updating here:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_Fedora_flyer

Trac ticket:
https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/141

-- 
Thanks,
Warm regards,
Ankur (FranciscoD)

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha

Join Fedora! Come talk to us!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

[Joe Brockmeier]

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:59:06AM +1100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
>  From the recent comments, I think we're leaning towards the
> third, but
>  it'll change quite a few things. For instance, instead of separate
>  sections for Gnome3.10, KDE4.11, Sugar0.100, and E17, we'll have
>  something like: 
I think that's the best (the third approach). 

>  == Updated desktop interfaces! ==
>  Fedora 20 updates the original set of available desktops: Gnome to 3.10,
>  KDE to 4.11, Sugar to 0.100, XFCE, MATE, LXDE. These latest versions
>  come with a bunch of fixes, optimisations and new shiny application
>  sets. Fedora 20 also includes the powerful, yet flexible, Enlightment
>  desktop shell which was released after a decade of development. 
Are we assuming the audience knows what GNOME, KDE, etc. are? 

I'd approach it like this:

== Stunning, Stable User Interface ==

Fedora 20 provides a polished, stable desktop that comes with an
excellent selection of applications for fun and productivity. Whether
you're writing a report, school paper, doing a spreadsheet, or managing
music and photos, Fedora has everything you need right at your
fingertips.

# # # 

For users who aren't familiar with the applications, I think "KDE,
Sugar, XFCE, MATE" is a little overwhelming. 

>  Similarly, instead of Apache OOO and Libreoffice, we'll have:
>  == Not one, but two office suites! ==
>  etc. 
I wouldn't even mention that. (And, technically, don't we also have
KOffice, etc.?)

>  The major drawback is that the new stuff doesn't get as much lime
> light
>  as I'd like it to get (since we're proud of showcasing newest available
>  software in each release). I'd like to have a flyer dedicated to
>  changes, one that only goes "What's new in Fedora 20?". It's what most
>  of our users look forward to in a new release: "Ooooo! What's Fedora
>  changing this time? Is there a new software set?"  
I think we'll still highlight the newest software, but not in the flier.
In other communications, we'll still be broadcasting that. 

Best, 

jzb
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Open Source and Standards, Red Hat
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/