4:19 p.m.
Hello all,
A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code
makes it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Check it out
here:
http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-r...
Thanks,
Kara
5:05 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Kara Schiltz <kschiltz(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hello all,
A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code makes
it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Check it out here:
http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-r...
Nice video Paul :)
now, I think it would be nice to extend the reach of that video to
those not really comfortable with spoken English.
Specifically, I'm thinking about:
* subtitles in english
* translated subtitles
* full translation of the audio track
the last one is clearly very hard to do, but the other two could be doable.
what's your opinion?
--
Gianluca Sforna
http://morefedora.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna
6:47 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 12:05:48AM +0200, Gianluca Sforna wrote:
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Kara Schiltz
<kschiltz(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> A new blog + video has posted on Red Hat News that outlines how code makes
> it from the community into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Check it out here:
> http://press.redhat.com/2009/10/06/from-code-to-community-to-enterprise-r...
Nice video Paul :)
now, I think it would be nice to extend the reach of that video to
those not really comfortable with spoken English.
Specifically, I'm thinking about:
* subtitles in english
* translated subtitles
* full translation of the audio track
the last one is clearly very hard to do, but the other two could be doable.
what's your opinion?
Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that
would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself
would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here
in Fedora).
I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer wanted
to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or
without an unchanged copy of the video.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
2:02 a.m.
On 10/07/2009 05:17 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that
would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself
would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here
in Fedora).
Would it be impossible for Red Hat to drop the "ND" clause atleast for
Fedora videos? It doesn't match the spirit of Fedora to have such
restrictions.
Rahul
8:11 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 07, 2009 at 12:32:40PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/07/2009 05:17 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>
> Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so that
> would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself
> would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here
> in Fedora).
Would it be impossible for Red Hat to drop the "ND" clause atleast for
Fedora videos? It doesn't match the spirit of Fedora to have such
restrictions.
This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers in
particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the
pipeline, should not obscure that.
Also, I think you should keep in mind that Red Hat's Creative team
produces these videos. If we were to make videos as part of the
Fedora Marketing team or some other Fedora entity, I would absolutely
want those videos to reflect the licensing we use elsewhere.
NoDerivatives (ND) is a fundamentally sensible license for videos
produced *by a commercial entity*, where there's an interest in
preserving the original intent, message, and brand value of the
content. In Fedora, on the other hand, we provide resources that
anyone can remix for any purpose, trademarks aside. What Gianluca was
asking for, the ability to spread this video to other locales, we
could provide through translations as I suggested.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
8:21 a.m.
On 10/07/2009 06:41 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers
in
particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the
pipeline, should not obscure that.
I assume you were in it because Fedora is a key part of that message and
I assume that is the reason it was highlighted to this list specifically
leaving aside many of the other videos that Red Hat has produced
recently. Either way, I would prefer us to enable the community to
enable translations for the videos without asking permission to do so.
That applies to all the Red Hat short videos like these ones but
especially ones that involve Fedora because the community certainly
would be interested in that.
Rahul
11:22 a.m.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/07/2009 06:41 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> This is not a Fedora video -- it's a video for Red Hat customers in
> particular. The fact that I happen to be in it, explaining the
> pipeline, should not obscure that.
>
I assume you were in it because Fedora is a key part of that message and
I assume that is the reason it was highlighted to this list specifically
leaving aside many of the other videos that Red Hat has produced
recently. Either way, I would prefer us to enable the community to
enable translations for the videos without asking permission to do so.
That applies to all the Red Hat short videos like these ones but
especially ones that involve Fedora because the community certainly
would be interested in that.
Rahul
So, from the video team here, we pretty much have our hands tied to the
ND clause. We have a video here, with Paul talking about how this and
that happens, including how our products and services work.
Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it
up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your
imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people
assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about
Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know
who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name
associated with a derivative that is malicious.
It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't default to
CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in
the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes,
we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever
possible.
It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be CC-BY-SA. I'll
see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice
of legal counsel.
As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we can't drop the ND. Feel
free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put
in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I
get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I
can to help.)
Thanks for understanding and thanks even more for being so passionate
about this issue- I'm in total agreement on being as open as possible,
but there are certain situations where that can't happen due to the
risks involved... for now.
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
11:36 a.m.
On 10/07/2009 09:52 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it
up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your
imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people
assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about
Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know
who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name
associated with a derivative that is malicious.
I always as a rule put myself in the shoes of a community member rather
than Legal because I understand the community requirements better than
the legal requirements. My interest in the legal details are only
because they help the community.
I can't pretend to be a lawyer but I would have thought a deliberately
malicious alteration would have other legal resources compared to simply
denying the freedom to remix the video. It is not just translations.
What If I want to take a few minutes of the clip and weave it into a
different story? What about a different local language voice over? I am
sure you can understand why allowing this creative freedom to flourish
by providing the source material under a liberal license is useful.
It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't
default to
CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in
the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes,
we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever
possible.
Yes, I have been pushing for the NC clause to be dropped for a long
time, too. Happy to see progress on that front.
It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be
CC-BY-SA. I'll
see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice
of legal counsel.
Sure. Copying fedora-legal list. One more thing to consider: We have
been doing Flash streaming and using for downloads. Now that Firefox
(Epiphany, Opera, Chrome as well) has built-in Ogg support, I think we
can stream Ogg Theora videos directly using simple flash fallbacks for
browsers that don't support it. In case, you haven't seen Nicu's mail,
refer to
http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody
Rahul
2:10 p.m.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/07/2009 09:52 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
> Put yourself in the shoes of legal - someone takes this video, cuts it
> up to make us look bad or misrepresent us in some way- let your
> imagination run free... That video gets uploaded, blogged about, people
> assume it's from us and someone takes exception. The one hard part about
> Creative Commons is the Attribution. On one hand, we want people to know
> who originally made the video, on the other hand we don't want our name
> associated with a derivative that is malicious.
>
I always as a rule put myself in the shoes of a community member rather
than Legal because I understand the community requirements better than
the legal requirements. My interest in the legal details are only
because they help the community.
Reasonably so!
I can't pretend to be a lawyer but I would have thought a
deliberately
malicious alteration would have other legal resources compared to simply
denying the freedom to remix the video.
AFAIK, not really.
It is not just translations.
What If I want to take a few minutes of the clip and weave it into a
different story?
I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else
cuts it up and
each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went
there, I'm just saying...)
What about a different local language voice over? I am
sure you can understand why allowing this creative freedom to flourish
by providing the source material under a liberal license is useful.
As I said, I absolutely agree. But, IANAL and, as such, I'm certainly
not one for Red Hat, so I can't make videos that go against what I'm
told to do. It's unfortunate, but from conversations with legal, this
seems to be the only way to protect us as it is.
For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put
in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the
copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that
video and, I assume, have it taken it down.
By having a license on certain things that we do, we give ourselves
legal maneuverability in case some situation does arise.
Now, I would love to have all videos out there for anyone to do anything
with and the people that saw them would be smart enough to know what's
legit and what's not. I would love to trust all people to act civil and
respectful of my work and out work as a video team. Wouldn't that be nice?
I would love to see everything we did spread all over and be remixed,
translated, and shown in a different light. That's progress. But, I can't.
> It's tough to do, but we're getting closer. We don't
default to
> CC-BY-NC-ND anymore- the default drops the NC from that. It's a step in
> the right direction and we have it as a goal to do more SA videos. Yes,
> we've only done one, to date, but I want our team to do it whenever
> possible.
>
Yes, I have been pushing for the NC clause to be dropped for a long
time, too. Happy to see progress on that front.
Meeeee too.
> It's a very good idea for the future Fedora videos to be
CC-BY-SA. I'll
> see what I can do as far as that goes, but we have to follow the advice
> of legal counsel.
>
Sure. Copying fedora-legal list. One more thing to consider: We have
been doing Flash streaming and using for downloads. Now that Firefox
(Epiphany, Opera, Chrome as well) has built-in Ogg support, I think we
can stream Ogg Theora videos directly using simple flash fallbacks for
browsers that don't support it. In case, you haven't seen Nicu's mail,
refer to
http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody
Rahul
I wish I was on the web team at Red Hat and could do this stuff. I wish
we had more people on the web team that had time to work on all of this.
It's very exciting and I'm glad it's coming to fruition now. That said,
they're swamped and I know there's some redesign work happening on the
site. Stuff I don't even know all of the details about. I'm happy to
ping them and see about the HTML5 stuff and having flash as a fallback.
That would be tremendous. I just have no concept of whether it's doable
for them right now. I'll see what I can find out.
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
2:28 p.m.
On 10/07/2009 03:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else cuts it
up and
each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went
there, I'm just saying...)
I tend to believe that the people who want to make disgusting and
hateful remixes of our content will do so irregardless of our licensing
model. By restricting derivative works, we merely prevent those with
good and positive intentions from doing so.
Or, to frame it another way, should we prevent people from making code
changes to our software because they could turn the software into
dangerous viruses or Nazi themed window managers? (Hey, you went there
first.)
~spot
2:48 p.m.
Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
On 10/07/2009 03:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
> I understand all of that. I'm saying what if someone else cuts it up and
> each time he mentions developers, he suddenly says Nazis. (Yeah I went
> there, I'm just saying...)
>
I tend to believe that the people who want to make disgusting and
hateful remixes of our content will do so irregardless of our licensing
model.
Absolutely.
By restricting derivative works, we merely prevent those with
good and positive intentions from doing so.
Yep!
Or, to frame it another way, should we prevent people from making
code
changes to our software because they could turn the software into
dangerous viruses or Nazi themed window managers? (Hey, you went there
first.)
~spot
I absolutely agree. I'm not in control, just explaining why it is the
way it is.
This is an argument I've been having for, oh, 2 1/2 years.
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
8:21 p.m.
On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:.
For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put
in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the
copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that
video and, I assume, have it taken it down.
If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes
but so what? I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is
one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos
like this? The example also shows that people who actually go about
creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or
licensing. They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy
of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point.
Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of
code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various
free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that
someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork
it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all.
Rahul
9:28 a.m.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:.
> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put
> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the
> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that
> video and, I assume, have it taken it down.
>
If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes
but so what?
I agree.
I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is
one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos
like this?
Absolutely.
The example also shows that people who actually go about
creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or
licensing.
Yep.
They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy
of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point.
I've no doubt you can.
Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines
of
code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various
free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that
someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork
it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all.
Rahul
Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir.
As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've
been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured
out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how it
is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to explain
why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it.
That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this!
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
3:01 p.m.
Colby Hoke wrote on 10/08/2009 10:28 AM:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:.
>
>> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put
>> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the
>> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that
>> video and, I assume, have it taken it down.
>>
>
> If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad remixes
> but so what?
I agree.
> I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is
> one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out videos
> like this?
Absolutely.
> The example also shows that people who actually go about
> creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or
> licensing.
Yep.
> They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy
> of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point.
>
>
I've no doubt you can.
> Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of
> code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various
> free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that
> someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork
> it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all.
>
> Rahul
>
Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir.
As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've
been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured
out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how it
is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to explain
why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it.
That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this!
Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos
will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want to
use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing allows
will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing
translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance illustrating
the development path of software (or using it in some other way - the
devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to messer(a)redhat.com.
Pam Chestek
Sr. IP Attorney
x44473
"They sure keep me on my toes."
7:32 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: New blog post
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 04:01:58PM -0400, Pamela Chestek wrote:
Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat
videos will provide contact information for permissions, so people
who want to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC
licensing allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're
interested in doing translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian
performance illustrating the development path of software (or using
it in some other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder),
write to messer(a)redhat.com.
Just to be fair to Constantine Seregeivich, my acting is more
influenced by his younger brother Drugo. Drugo's fortunately
undocumented and largely unknown school of "residual drunkenness"
never really caught on in the shadow of Constantine's "spiritual
realism," except maybe in the case of Steven Seagal, or possibly Gary
Busey. If only I hadn't happened upon that dog-eared copy of "Acting:
If I Can (Hic!) Do It, So Can You" that day in a dusty Greenwich
Village bookstore.... The world rues the day.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
12:05 p.m.
Pamela Chestek wrote:
Colby Hoke wrote on 10/08/2009 10:28 AM:
> Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> On 10/08/2009 12:40 AM, Colby Hoke wrote:.
>>
>>> For example, there was a remix of the Truth Happens video that was put
>>> in with some very questionable material. It was offensive. Due to the
>>> copyright (back then we used copyright), we were able to go after that
>>> video and, I assume, have it taken it down.
>>>
>>
>> If you allow people to create remixes, they will create some bad
>> remixes
>> but so what?
> I agree.
>> I know of exactly one example of such a thing tnat that is
>> one you are citing here, in how many years of Red Hat putting out
>> videos
>> like this?
> Absolutely.
>> The example also shows that people who actually go about
>> creating such bad remixes don't have a damn about copyright or
>> licensing.
> Yep.
>> They just will do it and I am pretty sure I can find a copy
>> of that video regardless of what Red Hat does at this point.
>>
>>
> I've no doubt you can.
>> Look at this this way: Red Hat releases tens of thousands of lines of
>> code and content (such as documentation or even fonts) under various
>> free and open source licenses. It is possible and even likely that
>> someone will add a bad patch to what Red Hat has released or even fork
>> it on occasions. It doesn't negate the benefits at all.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
> Well this can go on all day long. You're preaching to the choir.
>
> As I've said, time and time again, I agree. I absolutely agree. I've
> been talking to our legal department and we'll have something figured
> out very soon regarding this. All I'm trying to say is: this is how
> it is right now. We've made good progress and I'm just trying to
> explain why it's this way. I'm not trying to defend it or attack it.
>
> That said, I hope we can figure out a way to do this!
>
Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat
videos will provide contact information for permissions, so people who
want to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC
licensing allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested
in doing translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance
illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some
other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to
messer(a)redhat.com.
Pam Chestek
Sr. IP Attorney
x44473
"They sure keep me on my toes."
Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some
feedback on this and we'll make
announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're
granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the
video and know.)
We're doing it as a test coming up and, hopefully, it will expand
depending on interest and approval.
So, we're going to be setting up an email address where these requests
can go. Mike Esser or I will make the announcement when that's up. I
know Mike's taking a pounding right now in email from this, so I ask
that you be kind in your emailing and feel free to CC me on them as
well. I'm here to help Mike out on the load and am also here to answer
any questions.
So, sorry about all the email, Mike!
Feel free to direct comments to me directly, if you like. Just trying to
make my project manager's life a little easier!
Thanks everyone for the interest and I hope you see this as a step in
the right direction- I know I certainly do! Also, I want to thank Pam
for all her work in figuring out how we can do this. Thanks everyone!
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
1:43 a.m.
On 10/15/2009 08:05 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
Pamela Chestek wrote:
> Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos
> will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want
> to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing
> allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing
> translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance
> illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some
> other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to
> messer(a)redhat.com.
Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some feedback on this and we'll make
announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're
granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the
video and know.)
All the benefit of CC licenses over the traditional model was that the
user does not need to ask the author for permission.
Having a restrictive CC license and asking to user to send emails to
require a permissive one seems a bit like returning to step one. Why
bother with NC-ND?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
7:40 a.m.
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 09:43:45AM +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
On 10/15/2009 08:05 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
>Pamela Chestek wrote:
>>Okay, we heard (thanks Rahul and Colby). Going forward, Red Hat videos
>>will provide contact information for permissions, so people who want
>>to use our videos in ways other than what the current CC licensing
>>allows will know who to ask. For now, if you're interested in doing
>>translations of Paul's stunning Stanislavskian performance
>>illustrating the development path of software (or using it in some
>>other way - the devil is whispering on my shoulder), write to
>>messer(a)redhat.com.
>
>Hey everybody, I'd love to hear some feedback on this and we'll make
>announcements through Paul for videos relating to Fedora where we're
>granting extra rights. (Or you'll be able to look at the end of the
>video and know.)
All the benefit of CC licenses over the traditional model was that
the user does not need to ask the author for permission.
Having a restrictive CC license and asking to user to send emails to
require a permissive one seems a bit like returning to step one. Why
bother with NC-ND?
Nicu,
While I think you're partly correct in that this change isn't quite
what some people were asking for, I also think it's a step forward.
The change has essentially been:
"Can we remix this non-commercially?"
"No."
"What about now?"
"Maybe, and here's the person to ask about that."
Saying this is a step backward because you now have to ask a question
obfuscates the point a bit. :-) Not having to ask would be helpful,
but not having the *opportunity* to ask is definitely the step back.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
2:53 a.m.
On 10/07/2009 10:10 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
I wish I was on the web team at Red Hat and could do this stuff. I
wish
we had more people on the web team that had time to work on all of this.
It's very exciting and I'm glad it's coming to fruition now. That said,
they're swamped and I know there's some redesign work happening on the
site. Stuff I don't even know all of the details about. I'm happy to
ping them and see about the HTML5 stuff and having flash as a fallback.
That would be tremendous. I just have no concept of whether it's doable
for them right now. I'll see what I can find out.
Let me chime in,, right now the code for embedding the video in the web
page is:
<object
id="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http://...
data="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http:...
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="325"
width="400">
<param name="movie"
value="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http...
<param name="bgcolor" value="#000000">
<param name="quality" value="high">
<param name="flashvars"
value="file=http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/red-hat-code-into-rhel.flv&a...
</object>
To make it work with the VIDEO tag, it shoud just be encompassed with
<VIDEO src="http://www.redhat.com/v/ogg/red-hat-code-into-rhel.ogg"
controls> and </VIDEO>
So the result will be:
<VIDEO src="http://www.redhat.com/v/ogg/red-hat-code-into-rhel.ogg"
controls>
<object
id="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http://...
data="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http:...
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="325"
width="400">
<param name="movie"
value="http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-player.swf?oid=http...
<param name="bgcolor" value="#000000">
<param name="quality" value="high">
<param name="flashvars"
value="file=http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/red-hat-code-into-rhel.flv&a...
</object>
</VIDEO>
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
![value="file=http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/red-hat-code-into-rhel.flv&a...](http://value="file=http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/red-hat-code-into-rhel.flv&vid_skin=http://www.redhat.com/v/swf/redbox/redbox-gui.swf&autoStart=false&image=http://www.redhat.com/g/video_stills/red-hat-code-into-rhel-400x300.png&omniEnv=redhatcom%22%3E){kind=link}
2:29 p.m.
On 10/07/2009 12:22 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we
can't drop the ND. Feel
free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put
in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I
get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I
can to help.)
If the translators could provide the translations in *.srt or *.sub
format, would that make this easier? Then you don't need to manipulate
the original video file at all...
~m
2:56 p.m.
Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 10/07/2009 12:22 PM, Colby Hoke wrote:
> As Paul said, this isn't a "Fedora video," so we can't drop the ND.
Feel
> free, if you want to do translations, to email me directly and I'll put
> in in the creative queue here and get it done for you. (That said, if I
> get dozens of them, it may be near impossible, but I'll do everything I
> can to help.)
If the translators could provide the translations in *.srt or *.sub
format, would that make this easier? Then you don't need to manipulate
the original video file at all...
~m
I've never used these formats. I don't know know how it works and I'm
not sure about the legal implications of using that as an overlay to the
video.
I kinda look at it like this: we have patents at Red Hat, right? Oooooh
everyone gets scared! But, we have them not because we might exercise
them for our gain, we have them so others don't have them. So that
others can't use them for their gain. We have them for peace of mind.
I kinda feel like, if you wanna remix a video, you're going to do it
anyway. If you want to subtitle it, do it.
If it is malicious and we take exception, we have a leg to stand on with
the ND. I'm not advocating violating the license, just saying...
I feel like licenses are there to protect you, not from the good guys
(and gals), but from the bad ones. This is probably most why IANAL.
--
Colby A. Hoke
[ Producer ]
Brand Communications + Design
Raleigh, NC
-----------------------------
choke(a)redhat.com
P: 919.621.8802
8:36 a.m.
On 10/07/2009 04:11 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Also, I think you should keep in mind that Red Hat's Creative team
produces these videos. If we were to make videos as part of the
Fedora Marketing team or some other Fedora entity, I would absolutely
want those videos to reflect the licensing we use elsewhere.
NoDerivatives (ND) is a fundamentally sensible license for videos
produced *by a commercial entity*, where there's an interest in
preserving the original intent, message, and brand value of the
content. In Fedora, on the other hand, we provide resources that
anyone can remix for any purpose, trademarks aside. What Gianluca was
asking for, the ability to spread this video to other locales, we
could provide through translations as I suggested.
While I agree about this particular video, which is primarily about
branding and directed at Red Hat customers, it seems the Red Hat
Creative team defaults to CC-BY-NC-ND for everything, even in cases when
such a restrictions does not bring any additional benefit, like in
http://www.redhat.com/videos/fudcon11.html
Also, I hope at some point they will start delivering the content in
Free formats by default, with a nice and easy fallback option for the
customers with inadequate browsers (it's so easy that I can't see a
reason for not doing it):
http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/02/fallback-options-for-html5-video.html
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
2:03 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Gianluca, this is an interesting idea. The video is CC BY-ND, so
that
would mean that any subtitles or translations in the video itself
would need to come from Red Hat (i.e. we can't remix it ourselves here
in Fedora).
Yeah, I noticed the license issue after I hit "send" :(
I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer
wanted
to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or
without an unchanged copy of the video.
Ok, I'll give this a shot and see what happens...
--
Gianluca Sforna
http://morefedora.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna
7:30 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:47 AM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't think it would be a problem if you or another volunteer
wanted
to transcribe the audio and put a translation somewhere, with or
without an unchanged copy of the video.
Something like this could do?
http://morefedora.blogspot.com/2009/10/how-code-makes-from-upstream-to-fe...
--
Gianluca Sforna
http://morefedora.blogspot.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gianlucasforna
5306
days inactive
5316
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
23 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Colby Hoke -
Gianluca Sforna -
Kara Schiltz -
Máirín Duffy -
Nicu Buculei -
Pam Chestek -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram -
Tom Callaway