8:32 a.m.
Hi
A rather narrow interpretation and IMO misleading opinion on what the
project aims. We are trying to bring out the already existing community
to encourage the awareness and the community is not limited to
developers or coders at all. Patrick, you might want to send a response
back.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39280223,00.htm
Rahul
8:41 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Rahul wrote:
Hi
A rather narrow interpretation and IMO misleading opinion on what the
project aims. We are trying to bring out the already existing community
to encourage the awareness and the community is not limited to
developers or coders at all. Patrick, you might want to send a response
back.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39280223,00.htm
We leave ourselves open to misinterpretation when we launch a project with
vague goals, and then announce it to the world.
Still, I'm of the mind that any press is good press. Now we need to
figure out how to capitalize on it.
Having an actual *woman* speaking on behalf of Fedora Women might be a
good start, in fact. And if we can't find a woman who's willing to do
it... well, that indicates another problem, doesn't it?
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
9:09 a.m.
On Aug 1, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Rahul wrote:
> Hi
>
> A rather narrow interpretation and IMO misleading opinion on what the
> project aims. We are trying to bring out the already existing
> community
> to encourage the awareness and the community is not limited to
> developers or coders at all. Patrick, you might want to send a
> response
> back.
>
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39280223,00.htm
We leave ourselves open to misinterpretation when we launch a
project with
vague goals, and then announce it to the world.
Still, I'm of the mind that any press is good press. Now we need to
figure out how to capitalize on it.
Having an actual *woman* speaking on behalf of Fedora Women might be a
good start, in fact. And if we can't find a woman who's willing to do
it... well, that indicates another problem, doesn't it?
I would be willing to do it, who should I talk to?
Should we discuss this on the fedora-women-list; maybe some of the
other women on the list would be like to say something in response as
well?
~m
9:15 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, [ISO-8859-1] M�ir�n Duffy wrote:
> Having an actual *woman* speaking on behalf of Fedora Women
might be a
> good start, in fact. And if we can't find a woman who's willing to do
> it... well, that indicates another problem, doesn't it?
I would be willing to do it, who should I talk to?
Should we discuss this on the fedora-women-list; maybe some of the
other women on the list would be like to say something in response as
well?
Sounds like a good idea.
Maybe some discussion on the fedora-women-list would be a good thing for
two reasons. One, women actually determine the purpose of the group; and
two, we can point to actual discourse. Because when I saw the Slashdot
article, I immediately went to the list to see what had been happening,
and it wasn't much.
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
9:21 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Rahul wrote:
> Hi
>
> A rather narrow interpretation and IMO misleading opinion on what the
> project aims. We are trying to bring out the already existing community
> to encourage the awareness and the community is not limited to
> developers or coders at all. Patrick, you might want to send a response
> back.
>
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39280223,00.htm
We leave ourselves open to misinterpretation when we launch a project with
vague goals, and then announce it to the world.
Now would be a good time to note that this wasnt actually discussed
before being announced afaik.
Rahul
9:28 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Rahul wrote:
Now would be a good time to note that this wasnt actually discussed
before being announced afaik.
Heh. Yeah, we know that, but to the world that's reporting on it, it's
irrelevant. :)
This is one of those things where someone took the initiative to make
something happen. Good. That's what people are supposed to do. Of
course, when my wife asked me "why is a dude announcing this?" it was a
little tricky for me to answer.
So anyway -- a couple of practical questions:
1. Who's the maintainer of the fedora-women-list? Is it a woman, and if
not, can we make it a woman?
2. How many people have joined the list since the announcement was made?
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
9:37 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So anyway -- a couple of practical questions:
1. Who's the maintainer of the fedora-women-list? Is it a woman, and if
not, can we make it a woman?
I believe Patrick is. I wouldn't mind taking over.
2. How many people have joined the list since the announcement was
made?
Since the list started, six women have posted introductions (Karlie,
Jeanette, Sasikala, Anne, Tracy, and myself.) On top of that I'm sure
Runa is a member, so there's seven women on the least at a minimum (I
don't have access to the membership list so there could be more lurking.)
~m
10:55 a.m.
On Tue, 2006-08-01 at 10:37 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> So anyway -- a couple of practical questions:
>
> 1. Who's the maintainer of the fedora-women-list? Is it a woman, and if
> not, can we make it a woman?
I believe Patrick is. I wouldn't mind taking over.
> 2. How many people have joined the list since the announcement was made?
Since the list started, six women have posted introductions (Karlie,
Jeanette, Sasikala, Anne, Tracy, and myself.) On top of that I'm sure
Runa is a member, so there's seven women on the least at a minimum (I
don't have access to the membership list so there could be more lurking.)
What happened to Ms Maier in all this?
12:49 p.m.
On 8/1/06, Tejas Dinkar <tejasdinkar(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What happened to Ms Maier in all this?
Ms Maier has offered no comment.
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1:38 p.m.
On Tuesday 01 August 2006 09:37, Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> So anyway -- a couple of practical questions:
>
> 1. Who's the maintainer of the fedora-women-list? Is it a woman, and if
> not, can we make it a woman?
I believe Patrick is. I wouldn't mind taking over.
> 2. How many people have joined the list since the announcement was made?
Since the list started, six women have posted introductions (Karlie,
Jeanette, Sasikala, Anne, Tracy, and myself.) On top of that I'm sure
Runa is a member, so there's seven women on the least at a minimum (I
don't have access to the membership list so there could be more lurking.)
I've added Máirín as a list administrator alongside myself and Max. There are
currently 34 list members. Slashdot seems to have only led to a handful of
joins. Most of the members joined following the announcement to
fedora-announce-list. My part in this program arose only because I was
better able to get it up and running than Runa or a few of the other women
that had expressed interest in the idea. I'm crunched for time right now,
but I'll be addressing this thread more later.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64
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3:47 p.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006, Rahul wrote:
> Hi
>
> A rather narrow interpretation and IMO misleading opinion on what the
> project aims. We are trying to bring out the already existing community
> to encourage the awareness and the community is not limited to
> developers or coders at all. Patrick, you might want to send a response
> back.
>
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39280223,00.htm
We leave ourselves open to misinterpretation when we launch a project with
vague goals, and then announce it to the world.
Still, I'm of the mind that any press is good press. Now we need to
figure out how to capitalize on it.
Having an actual *woman* speaking on behalf of Fedora Women might be a
good start, in fact. And if we can't find a woman who's willing to do
it... well, that indicates another problem, doesn't it?
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
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Heh. Not all women think the same way about this kind of thing. Some
of us think it's good to have a list such as the new one. Some think
it's a bad idea. Some don't want to participate personally but feel
that other women might. So, how can one woman speak on behalf of all
women who contribute to Fedora?
Just speaking for myself, having attended a then overwhelmingly male
technical school, and worked for the past 30 years in an overwhelmingly
male industry, I know very well what it's like to be a woman in an
predominantly male environment, doing things that are stereotyped as
"male". It can be isolating. It can be uncomfortable at times. What
should a woman do when she is there and trying but not part of what is
going on? What should a woman do when a (probably well-meaning) man
says something based on an assumption about women that he may not even
know he has? Speak up and sound like a whiner? Stay quiet and know
that it will happen again? There are no good and easy answers. Just to
be clear, in my case I have been able to breach the barriers, but that
can be a lot of work and may not always be worth it. It all depends on
the situation and the specific woman's priorities and sensibilities.
The bottom line is
- discussion of the general topic of mailinglists for female members of
majority male communities can get complex,
- in our specific case the article's writer got it wrong, and
- yes, there should be a response, but it doesn't have to be anything
more than a correction.
Having a guy write the correction is fine; maybe even better than a
woman doing it. That underlines the fact that the list is an integral
part of the entire Fedora community, not just a thing that women are
doing off in some separate corner. Women are part of the community...
that's the message, n'est-ce pas?
Debbie
P.S. Yeah I mostly lurk. One day I will have time to do more! At least
that's the goal.
6479
days inactive
6479
days old
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10 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Alex -
Debbie Deutsch -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Máirín Duffy -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Rahul Sundaram -
Tejas Dinkar