Spins vs official content

[Mike McGrath]

We're working to get the pages together for F8.  Where should we put 
links to what things.  We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for the 
official content.  And thats from fedoraproject.org.  This is MUCH 
simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in 
mirrormanager.  The question I have is where to put official spins.  I'd 
like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to 
spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there.

Concerns:
   1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean
   2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins
   3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just 
don't know.

What does the marketing team think would be best for the get fedora page 
and the spins.fedoraproject.org page?

    -Mike

[Mike McGrath]

Mike McGrath wrote:
>  What does the marketing team think would be best for the get fedora 
>  page and the spins.fedoraproject.org page? 
One thing to add to this, we're currently trying to expand the websites 
team, if any of you marketing people are interested and have good UI, 
HTML, CSS page design skills, join the websites list or stop by 
#fedora-websites.

    -Mike

[Máirín Duffy]

Mike McGrath wrote:
>  We're working to get the pages together for F8.  Where should we
> put 
>  links to what things.  We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for the 
>  official content.  And thats from fedoraproject.org.  This is MUCH 
>  simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in 
>  mirrormanager.  
Wooo!!! Awesome!!!

  The question I have is where to put official spins.  I'd
>  like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to 
>  spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there.
>  
>  Concerns:
>    1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean 
I think folks are going to be confused as to the difference between 
spins and actual "real" Fedora, right? Is the Fedora Desktop spin the 
"real" Fedora? Or is everything just a spin now? Would it be more 
confusing to have a "real" Fedora and then some spins, or no "real" 
Fedora everything is a spin?

(See what I'm saying here?)

Depending on that, I think is how the page should be laid out for F8. 
The page design/layout right now is I think built with an underlying 
assumption that there is one Fedora to get, right? So it probably needs 
be redesigned a bit. Here's the current flow:

Get Fedora (there is only one to get?) => are you fast or slow? => How 
do you want to get it, bittorrent, mirrors, or network install? => oh 
my, there are actually a lot of choices i have to make here, fedora, 
arch, version #, etc.... overwhelming!

E.g., to simplify, we're kinda saying: "what would you like to get?" => 
"how would you like to get it?" => "you weren't specific enough up 
front, really, what would you like to get?" => "here it is"

I think we should try to say:

"What would you like?" => "How would you like to get it?" =>
"Here it is."

But when there are many choices to pick from for that first question :) 
It gets tricky.

>    2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins 
Well... are non-official spins going to be linked off of there?

>    3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just
>
>  don't know. 
I think the ideal way to handle this is categorization. E.g., if we have 
say 5 spins for f8 (i don't know if that's the right number) then we 
just list them out all on one page. If for f9 we get say 30... just 
categorize them - that might be pushing the boundaries of how many you 
could have linked off of one page... it gets up to 100 for f10... have 
categories where you click on the category and are brought to a page 
with just the links for the spins only in that category. Well over 100 
though and you're gonna want a directory and search engine. :)

~m

[Mike McGrath]

Máirín Duffy wrote:
>  Mike McGrath wrote:
> > We're working to get the pages together for F8.  Where should we put 
> > links to what things.  We've got 2 click to live cd or torrent for 
> > the official content.  And thats from fedoraproject.org.  This is 
> > MUCH simpler then previous releases and can be done due to changes in 
> > mirrormanager. 
>
>  Wooo!!! Awesome!!!
>
>   The question I have is where to put official spins.  I'd
> > like to put a link on the get fedora page that links to 
> > spins.fedoraproject.org to get the torrents from there.
> >
> > Concerns:
> >   1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean
>
>  I think folks are going to be confused as to the difference between 
>  spins and actual "real" Fedora, right? Is the Fedora Desktop spin the 
>  "real" Fedora? Or is everything just a spin now? Would it be more 
>  confusing to have a "real" Fedora and then some spins, or no "real" 
>  Fedora everything is a spin?
>  
We talked about this some last night on IRC, thought I'd bring some of 
this discussion back here.  So there's 3 types of Fedora.

    1) Official Fedora
    2) Fedora Respins (with the Fedora name)
    3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name)

Number 1) Will be on torrent.fedoraproject.org and the mirrors.  We'll 
be linking to the DVD on torrent and the Live CD on the mirrors. It is 
my understanding this is the "Desktop Spin"

Number 2) Will be on spins.fedoraproject.org.  We'll have KDE, 
Developer, Electronic Lab initially.  Possibly games if it gets approved 
in time but certainly this is a variable number and will continue to grow.

Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might 
kill our kittens.

To keep the get Fedora page simple, these are the number of non 
navigation links I count.

1) Public mirror list
2) An upgrades document list
3) i386 torrent DVD
4) x86_64 torrent DVD
5) ppc torrent DVD
6) i386 Live CD
7) x86_64 Live CD
8) spins.fedoraproject.org
9) torrent.fedoraproject.org

As well as the links currently listed under "Slow Internet? No Internet?"

Thoughts, comments?

    -Mike

[Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 13:33 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
>      3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) 
>  Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it
> might 
>  kill our kittens. 
Not entirely true, viz. ccLive.

>  To keep the get Fedora page simple, these are the number of non 
>  navigation links I count.
>  
>  1) Public mirror list
>  2) An upgrades document list
>  3) i386 torrent DVD
>  4) x86_64 torrent DVD
>  5) ppc torrent DVD
>  6) i386 Live CD
>  7) x86_64 Live CD
>  8) spins.fedoraproject.org
>  9) torrent.fedoraproject.org
>  
>  As well as the links currently listed under "Slow Internet? No Internet?"
PPC live media, plus it might be handy to have some sort of
document/site/whatever explaining how to determine what arch you have.

-- 
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet(a)gmail.com&gt;

PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed

[Mike McGrath]

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
>  On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 13:33 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
>    
> >     3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name)
> >     
>
>    
> > Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it might 
> > kill our kittens.
> >     
>
>  Not entirely true, viz. ccLive.
>     
That reminds me, how'd we get ccLive anyway?  Those guys are asking me 
for an additional 35G of storage.  Is that an official Fedora project or 
just something nice we're doing for the larger OSS community?

    -Mike

[Jesse Keating]

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:24:48 -0500
Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  That reminds me, how'd we get ccLive anyway?  Those guys are
> asking
>  me for an additional 35G of storage.  Is that an official Fedora
>  project or just something nice we're doing for the larger OSS
>  community? 
Jack, and the Board.

-- 
Jesse Keating RHCE      (jkeating.livejournal.com)
Fedora Project          (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating)
GPG Public Key          (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)

[Rahul Sundaram]

Mike McGrath wrote:

> >
>  We talked about this some last night on IRC, thought I'd bring some of 
>  this discussion back here.  So there's 3 types of Fedora.
>  
>     1) Official Fedora
>     2) Fedora Respins (with the Fedora name)
>     3) 3rd party Respins (without the Fedora name) 
Atleast in the docs project, we stopped using the word official and 
instead use formal for various reasons but even that can be avoided here.

1) Fedora respins
2) Fedora community (or custom) respins
3) Third party respins

>  Number 2) Will be on spins.fedoraproject.org.  We'll have KDE, 
>  Developer, Electronic Lab initially.  Possibly games if it gets approved 
>  in time but certainly this is a variable number and will continue to grow. 
I thought KDE was going to be retained as 1) until the spins 
infrastructure is proven out.

>  Number 3) We can't link to, host, or even talk about because it
> might 
>  kill our kittens. 
This we need to decide by a case by case basis. Some respins certainly 
can be linked to and even actively promoted.

Rahul

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

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Mike McGrath wrote:

>  Concerns:
>    1) Keeping the get fedora page simple and clean 
Nod - there's a fair chance of it getting cluttered.

>    2) Brand dilution between official and non official spins 
Attempting to keep it simple leads to something like:

- -> The download links for Fedora
- -> Official Fedora Spins (where the definition of spins needs to be put
in or, the spins given their own Fedora centric branding)
- -> Other Fedora Spins [linking off to a separate page]

>    3) There could be 30, 50, 100 re-spins this time next year we just
>  don't know. 
All the more nicer, but spins by their very nature would be drilling
down into niche and nicher audiences :) so a listing by category perhaps
would result eventually


- --

You see things; and you say 'Why?';
But I dream things that never were;
and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw
www.linkedin.com/in/sankarshan


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