FAmSCo meeting minutes - 2011-05-14

[Igor Pires Soares]

Hello Ambassadors!

Today FAmSCo members have held the first meeting of the month. Here are
the meeting minutes for your delight:

Minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...

Best regards!
-- 
Igor Pires Soares
Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
Fedora I18N/L10N QA
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hello,

I do personally believe the vacant seats should be assigned to the
candidates who took highest number of votes.

As per the results [1] of the last election for FAmSCo, David Ramsey and
Gomez Savinoare the next on the list.
Therefore they can be appointed to the FAmSCo.

[1] -
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2010-November/002893.html

However we miss Larry and it is a great loss to the project.


On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote:

>  Hello Ambassadors!
>
>  Today FAmSCo members have held the first meeting of the month. Here are
>  the meeting minutes for your delight:
>
>  Minutes:
>
>
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
>  Minutes (text):
>
>
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
>  Log:
>
>
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
>
>  Best regards!
>  --
>  Igor Pires Soares
>  Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
>  Fedora I18N/L10N QA
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*
The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine
Fedora Ambassador - Sri Lanka

[inode0]

2011/5/14 Buddhika Kurera <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  Hello,
>  I do personally believe the vacant seats should be assigned to the
>  candidates who took highest number of votes.
>  As per the results [1] of the last election for FAmSCo, David Ramsey and
>  Gomez Savinoare the next on the list.
>  Therefore they can be appointed to the FAmSCo.
>  [1]
>  - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2010-November/002893.html 
FAmSCo has rules governing what happens when there are open seats as
explained here

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules

If the number of filled seats drops below 5 then an election is called
to fill open seats.

John

[Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera]

Hello,

Yes, as per the election rules election is required only if the number of
vacant seats increases upto 3 or more.[1]
An election is not required at this moment.

But I believe giving the opportunity to another Ambassador is good rather
than keeping it as vacant.
Ultimately it will simplify others work as well.

Therefore we can select the next one on the row for the vacant seats.

Ideas welcome :).

[1] - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Seats_on_FAmSCo


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 12:14 AM, inode0 <inode0(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  2011/5/14 Buddhika Kurera <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  > Hello,
>  > I do personally believe the vacant seats should be assigned to the
>  > candidates who took highest number of votes.
>  > As per the results [1] of the last election for FAmSCo, David Ramsey and
>  > Gomez Savinoare the next on the list.
>  > Therefore they can be appointed to the FAmSCo.
>  > [1]
>  > -
>  http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2010-November/002893.html
>
>  FAmSCo has rules governing what happens when there are open seats as
>  explained here
>
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules
>
>  If the number of filled seats drops below 5 then an election is called
>  to fill open seats.
>
>  John
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>  


-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*
*Director - Foundation for Free and Open Software - Sri Lanka*
The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine

*Email*: bckurera(a)fossuser.lk | *Phone*: ([phone] | *Skype*:
buddhikakurera | *Fax*: ([phone]

"FOSS User Magazine (ISSN 2012-7650) is the first magazine for Free and Open
Source Software in Sri Lanka published by the Foundation for Free and Open
Software- Sri Lanka (FFOS -SL).
FOSS User Academia and FOSS User Research are the main projects carried out
by the Foundation besides the magazine. FFOS -SL is an
equal opportunity entity, for more information, visit www.fossuser.lk"

[inode0]

2011/5/14 Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera <bckurera(a)fossuser.lk&gt;:
>  Hello,
>  Yes, as per the election rules election is required only if the number of
>  vacant seats increases upto 3 or more.[1]
>  An election is not required at this moment.
>  But I believe giving the opportunity to another Ambassador is good rather
>  than keeping it as vacant.
>  Ultimately it will simplify others work as well.
>  Therefore we can select the next one on the row for the vacant seats.
>  Ideas welcome :). 
Generally, I think governance bodies should abide by the rules that
they have in place, rather than make up stuff on the fly. But if you
would like to suggest this as a policy change for the future I think
it is worth thinking about as you make a good point about giving other
ambassadors the opportunity to serve.

Since there is no current provision I see for the remainder of FAmSCo
to appoint anyone, I would be more agreeable to a mid-term election
which would not be difficult to arrange.

How many actual vacant seats are there now? I only know of one.

John

[Neville A. Cross]

On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 14:10 -0500, inode0 wrote:

>  How many actual vacant seats are there now? I only know of one.
>   
I feel we have another vacant  as Rahul Sundaram (FAS:Sundaram) has
attended only one FAmSCo meeting.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-03

He has said that he is busy, but he has not resigned.

I really hate to said it, but apparently we need to stablish FAmSCo
bylaws. We have come were we should stablish what to do if somebody just
don't show up for meetings? :(

I will like to have a clear rule rather than decide things on the fly,
as Inode0 has said.


-- 
Neville
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v
Linux User # 473217

[inode0]

On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Neville A. Cross <neville(a)taygon.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, 2011-05-14 at 14:10 -0500, inode0 wrote:
>
> > How many actual vacant seats are there now? I only know of one.
> >
>
>  I feel we have another vacant  as Rahul Sundaram (FAS:Sundaram) has
>  attended only one FAmSCo meeting.
>
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2011-03
>
>  He has said that he is busy, but he has not resigned.
>
>  I really hate to said it, but apparently we need to stablish FAmSCo
>  bylaws. We have come were we should stablish what to do if somebody just
>  don't show up for meetings? :(
>
>  I will like to have a clear rule rather than decide things on the fly,
>  as Inode0 has said. 
The same document I mentioned earlier, under the Members heading
describes the removal process of sitting members for cause. Everyone
has always hoped it would never be used, but it is there if in the
opinion of FAmSCo it is necessary.

John

[Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera]

Hello,

According to the FAmSCo reports Rahul was there only for one meeting out of
14.

As per the Election Rule there are provision for removing members in the
committee.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Members
""Members can be removed from the committee for misconduct by the Fedora
Project Board or by an absolute majority vote of the FAmSCo. If an election
becomes necessary upon member removal, the member cannot run for this
election, but the removed member CAN run for the next orderly election""

BUT Rahul was a active member and his contribution is very much important.
Therefore it is good to discuss with him and see whats went wrong.

Further it is better to amend by-rules by introducing new line describing
the action after the resignation/ removal of a FAmSCo member too. Mid term
elections as inode0 said seems pretty but should be have to focus into that.
We can easily select the next in the line from the last election. This is
the normal procedure as other organizations are also following.

So we can make it a clear rule by discussing with the Board and it is good
to arrange a town hall meeting as soon as possible to discuss this
situation.
-- 
Regards,

*Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera*

[Gerard Braad]

2011/5/15 Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera <bckurera(a)fossuser.lk&gt;:
>  According to the FAmSCo reports Rahul was there only for one meeting
> out of
>  14.
>  As per the Election Rule there are provision for removing members in the
>  committee. 
Hi,


Personally I do not see any reason to remove Rahul. First of all, we
as members have been in contact with Rahul on several occasions and
believe he just has difficulty with arranging his time schedule. We
all have paid day-time jobs and I understand it when this affects your
participation. However, we also believe that the members themselves
can indicate when they know they will not have the same amount of time
and inform us about this. This is at least how it works for us in APAC
;-).

At the moment I do see another issue within FAmSCo; we need to be more
resilient to issues in budget management and handing over tasks to
others.


Gerard


-- 
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
   Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hi,

Yes, as Gerard mentioned there is no need of removing anyone though
there are provisions.
Therefore there would not be 2 vacancies on FAmSCo but for the Larry's
one FAmSCo can appoint the next in row.
I dont see any need of pulling another election for that.

How ever keep it vacant till the term ends is not the option we need to seek.

In FAmSCo Larry was responsible for the budget therefore it is needed
to assign those responsibility to another member.
It is very important as F15 release is near.


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  2011/5/15 Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera <bckurera(a)fossuser.lk&gt;:
>  > According to the FAmSCo reports Rahul was there only for one meeting out of
>  > 14.
>  > As per the Election Rule there are provision for removing members in the
>  > committee.
>
>  Hi,
>
>
>  Personally I do not see any reason to remove Rahul. First of all, we
>  as members have been in contact with Rahul on several occasions and
>  believe he just has difficulty with arranging his time schedule. We
>  all have paid day-time jobs and I understand it when this affects your
>  participation. However, we also believe that the members themselves
>  can indicate when they know they will not have the same amount of time
>  and inform us about this. This is at least how it works for us in APAC
>  ;-).
>
>  At the moment I do see another issue within FAmSCo; we need to be more
>  resilient to issues in budget management and handing over tasks to
>  others.
>
>
>  Gerard
>  
-- 
Regards,
Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera

[Gerard Braad]

Hi,

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Buddhika Kurera
<bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  How ever keep it vacant till the term ends is not the option we need
> to seek. 
I partially see an issue here, but it is probably for another reason
than yours: at the moment NA is not represented by a FAmSCo member. As
FAmSCo we will discuss this... it was my intention to put this on the
agenda for the coming meeting. Together with the discussion for voting
on a new mentor as we also lost one position in NA due to the
resignation.

>  In FAmSCo Larry was responsible for the budget therefore it is
> needed
>  to assign those responsibility to another member.
>  It is very important as F15 release is near. 
We are aware of this and was also mentioned in the meeting. At the
moment we did not have feedback from the chair (Pierros) and I believe
this is important. During the last meeting, we only had 3
representatives when we discussed this topic (yn1v entered halfway).

regards,


Gerard

-- 
Gerard Braad — 吉拉德
   Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
   Regional Mentor for APAC/China, Member of FAmSCo
   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad

[Buddhike Kurera]

Hi,

>  I partially see an issue here, but it is probably for another reason
>  than yours: at the moment NA is not represented by a FAmSCo member. As
>  FAmSCo we will discuss this... it was my intention to put this on the
>  agenda for the coming meeting. Together with the discussion for voting
>  on a new mentor as we also lost one position in NA due to the
>  resignation. 
Yup i agree on this. Regions should be represented in the FAmSCo.
Seems it is time to amend the procedure to by-laws that should be
followed after FAmSCo member got resigned.

-- 
Regards,
Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera

[inode0]

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Gerard Braad <gbraad(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Buddhika Kurera
>  <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> > How ever keep it vacant till the term ends is not the option we need to seek.
>
>  I partially see an issue here, but it is probably for another reason
>  than yours: at the moment NA is not represented by a FAmSCo member. As
>  FAmSCo we will discuss this... it was my intention to put this on the
>  agenda for the coming meeting. Together with the discussion for voting
>  on a new mentor as we also lost one position in NA due to the
>  resignation. 
As someone from NA I see this completely differently. Larry and the
rest of FAmSCo represent all ambassadors. While it might be nice to
have one or more members of FAmSCo from each region, that isn't
necessary and it shouldn't really cause an issue for NA. If the
remaining members of FAmSCo don't think they represent ambassadors in
NA then I think that is a problem.

The last FAmSCo group was short one member for a substantial period of
time and this did not prevent it from continuing to effectively do its
work. The current Fedora Board has also been short one member for a
while without it causing any extreme hardship. So while I don't object
to replacing a missing member if that is what FAmSCo wants to do, I
don't think it is necessary. If you do choose to replace a missing
member I only ask that you do it in a way that is at least consistent
with current rules.

John

[Truong Anh Tuan]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "inode0" <inode0(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  To: ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 9:14:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] FAmSCo meeting minutes - 2011-05-14
>  
>  As someone from NA I see this completely differently. Larry and the
>  rest of FAmSCo represent all ambassadors. While it might be nice to
>  have one or more members of FAmSCo from each region, that isn't
>  necessary and it shouldn't really cause an issue for NA. If the
>  remaining members of FAmSCo don't think they represent ambassadors in
>  NA then I think that is a problem. 
+1.
As an ambassador in APAC, I don't see any priorities for APAC just
because of more APAC members in FAmSCo.
Again, we shouldn't forget Fedora is a global community.

Kind regards, 
Tuan

[Igor Pires Soares]

Em Dom, 2011-05-15 às 00:28 +0530, Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera
escreveu:
>  Hello,
>  
>  
>  Yes, as per the election rules election is required only if the number
>  of vacant seats increases upto 3 or more.[1]
>  An election is not required at this moment. 
>  
>  
>  But I believe giving the opportunity to another Ambassador is good
>  rather than keeping it as vacant.
>  Ultimately it will simplify others work as well.
>  
>  
>  Therefore we can select the next one on the row for the vacant seats.
>  
>  
>  Ideas welcome :). 
IMHO we should keep the current rules in the short term. I don't think
it is nice to change the rules while we are playing the game. If someone
established the current rules is probably because there was a discussion
and an agreement on not requiring a new election unless 3 or more
members resign.

I do think the current situation opens a good discussion to improve
things for next terms. IMHO the current rules are good enough. Even if
we consider Rahul's absence we still have sufficient members. If we
should remove or not a member who is absent for a long time, it is
another question also worth it.

Regards,
-- 
Igor Pires Soares
Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
Fedora I18N/L10N QA
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor

[David Nalley]

Previous FAmSCo's have had members resign and it didn't cause undue problems.
Like John Rose, I don't particularly see a problem with NA not being
represented. FAmSCo has historically delegated well and meddled little
in regional affairs, and it isn't as if the non-NA FAmSCo members are
unknown to us.

Rather than a knee-jerk reaction to the resignation and a hurried
changing of the rules (which FAmSCo is fully empowered to do); I'd
rather see a thoughtful long term strategy considered by FAmSCo about
how to deal with attrition, and the other things that are unique to
FAmSCo. For instance, during my two terms on FAmSCo I found the end of
the calendar year (which is also the end of the term) to have pretty
high loss as far as meeting attendance and general participation if
election reform is going to be something addressed. Perhaps that means
a shift to following FESCo and the Board's election cycle where every
release cycle there's an election for 1/2 of the body, or perhaps it
means fewer meetings and an increased conversation level on the FAmSCo
list, or perhaps something even better that I haven't considered yet.

2011/5/14 Buddhika Kurera <bckurera(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:
>  Hello,
>  I do personally believe the vacant seats should be assigned to the
>  candidates who took highest number of votes.
>  As per the results [1] of the last election for FAmSCo, David Ramsey and
>  Gomez Savinoare the next on the list.
>  Therefore they can be appointed to the FAmSCo.
>  [1]
>  - http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2010-November/002893.html
>  However we miss Larry and it is a great loss to the project.
>
>  On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Igor Pires Soares <igorsoares(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Ambassadors!
> >
> > Today FAmSCo members have held the first meeting of the month. Here are
> > the meeting minutes for your delight:
> >
> > Minutes:
> >
> >
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
> > Minutes (text):
> >
> >
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
> > Log:
> >
> >
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-14/fedora-meeting...
> >
> > Best regards!
> > --
> > Igor Pires Soares
> > Fedora Ambassador (Brazil) - Member of FAmSCo
> > Fedora I18N/L10N QA
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Igor
> >
> > --
> > ambassadors mailing list
> > ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>
>
>
>  --
>  Regards,
>  Buddhike Chandradeepa Kurera
>  The Editor in Chief - FOSS User Magazine
>  Fedora Ambassador - Sri Lanka
>
>  --
>  ambassadors mailing list
>  ambassadors(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
>