9:35 a.m.
To what end?? Are we going to kick out people who aren't
performing up
to some predefined amount of work??
I find it awfully difficult to justify adding yet more overhead to
people who are already working (and most likely quite busy)
Suppose, someone is not any more interested contributing, neither they
plan to do it again in future.
What we currently do is to keep their junk pages in the wiki.
People coming for help visits them, mails for help and get no reply.
Should not we ping our ambassadors periodically and ensure they are
still contributing or atleast interested in contributing? If someone
is contributing, fine. If someone is not available for sometime, let
him/her reply back that he/she will be unavailable for a specific
period of time.
Someone may be busy for a certain period of time, but that does not
mean he/she can not reply back his/her unavailability. If someone does
not reply in a month, it is for sure that he/she is not interested any
more.
What we can do is mail all the ambassadors asking if they are still
"alive", if someone does not reply in a couple of week, send him/her
another ping and even he/she does not reply in a month, remove
him/her.
My suggestion is not to kick out people, for a start, identify those
who are dead for Fedora and remove them.
Don't get me wrong, I think accountability is a good thing - and
in
volunteer organizations it's the way to ensure that things get done,
but not sure that mandatory reporting is the way to go. Generally I
have found that within a volunteer organization the people who are
going to do the work are going to go and get it done, occasionally
they need some motivation. Periodic meetings are great from that, but
I'd say that probably less than 10% of Ambassadors attend their
regional meetings, and reporting would likely have even less effect.
--
Regards,
Susmit.
=============================================
ssh
0x86DD170A
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit
=============================================
10:01 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:35 AM, susmit shannigrahi
<thinklinux.ssh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> To what end?? Are we going to kick out people who aren't
performing up
> to some predefined amount of work??
> I find it awfully difficult to justify adding yet more overhead to
> people who are already working (and most likely quite busy)
Suppose, someone is not any more interested contributing, neither they
plan to do it again in future.
What we currently do is to keep their junk pages in the wiki.
People coming for help visits them, mails for help and get no reply.
Should not we ping our ambassadors periodically and ensure they are
still contributing or atleast interested in contributing? If someone
is contributing, fine. If someone is not available for sometime, let
him/her reply back that he/she will be unavailable for a specific
period of time.
This is exactly right. Here is an example of someone still listed as
an ambassador but who claims to be a "former" ambassador on his wiki
page linked from the ambassadors list.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen
I would assume he would be perfectly happy to be removed from the
ambassador list.
There are many examples of others who don't even provide the courtesy
of saying they are no longer involved but rather just don't give any
reply to attempts to contact them and give no other indication of
their availability on the wiki.
Should not we ping our ambassadors periodically and ensure they are
still contributing or atleast interested in contributing? If someone
is contributing, fine. If someone is not available for sometime, let
him/her reply back that he/she will be unavailable for a specific
period of time.
Someone may be busy for a certain period of time, but that does not
mean he/she can not reply back his/her unavailability. If someone does
not reply in a month, it is for sure that he/she is not interested any
more.
What we can do is mail all the ambassadors asking if they are still
"alive", if someone does not reply in a couple of week, send him/her
another ping and even he/she does not reply in a month, remove
him/her.
I think I can agree with this more easily. This sort of housecleaning
could be done periodically and probably wouldn't need to be done that
often. I would think once a year or one a release cycle would help
matters a lot.
My suggestion is not to kick out people, for a start, identify those
who are dead for Fedora and remove them.
I agree with this, they might well not be dead for Fedora. Bob who I
singled out above is not at all dead for Fedora, but isn't interested
in the ambassadors program any more as I understand him.
John
11:36 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
(Removing famsco-list from the Cc)
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, inode0 wrote:
There are many examples of others who don't even provide the
courtesy
of saying they are no longer involved but rather just don't give any
reply to attempts to contact them and give no other indication of
their availability on the wiki.
You have touched on the key distinction between Ambassadors and some of
the other parts of the Fedora Project, which is that Ambassadors are a
high-touch entry point to the community, where *personal interaction* is
more common than just getting on a mailing list.
You become a contributor after meeting someone at an event. You form a
cluster of contributors who all are in the same region, or who are all
in Fedora because another Ambassador recruited them. Look at all the
people that Gerold and Joerg have recruited into the project, for
example.
=======
The CountryList page shouldn't just be a page. It should be a little
web form where people give their location and get back a list of the
Ambassadors who are closest to them. Then the potential contributor can
talk with that Ambassador, learn more about Fedora, and be put into
contact with the right other people who can help them be successful.
Ambassadorship and mentorship are very similar, and Ambassadors are in
some ways the "guidance counselors" of Fedora. They need to know enough
about everything going on in the Project to speak intelligently and
point someone in the right direction.
So yeah, knowing who is active or dormant in the *AMBASSADORS CONTEXT*
is an important thing.
The distinction that John (inode) and Susmit make is a good one.
=======
> Someone may be busy for a certain period of time, but that does
not
> mean he/she can not reply back his/her unavailability. If someone
> does not reply in a month, it is for sure that he/she is not
> interested any more.
>
> What we can do is mail all the ambassadors asking if they are still
> "alive", if someone does not reply in a couple of week, send him/her
> another ping and even he/she does not reply in a month, remove
> him/her.
I think I can agree with this more easily. This sort of housecleaning
could be done periodically and probably wouldn't need to be done that
often. I would think once a year or one a release cycle would help
matters a lot.
I think this is one useful action item, good for someone who enjoys
policy and process.
I think that making the CountryList page more interactive is another,
and that is good for someone who wants to work with the Fedora Account
System, or who wants to bribe one of the Websites/Infrastructure/FAS
guys to help them out.
--Max
11:49 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
The CountryList page shouldn't just be a page. It should be a
little web
form where people give their location and get back a list of the Ambassadors
who are closest to them. Then the potential contributor can talk with that
Ambassador, learn more about Fedora, and be put into contact with the right
other people who can help them be successful.
[snip]
I think that making the CountryList page more interactive is another,
and
that is good for someone who wants to work with the Fedora Account System,
or who wants to bribe one of the Websites/Infrastructure/FAS guys to help
them out.
Couldn't it be a nice interactive map showing where our contributors are ?
Like say, what I'm trying to build here: http://fedorahosted.org/shomyu
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
11:56 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
Couldn't it be a nice interactive map showing where our
contributors
are ?
Like say, what I'm trying to build here:
http://fedorahosted.org/shomyu
Yes, yes it could! Good work! Is there anyone else helping you? Don't
you eventually need to get data out of the FAS for this to really work?
--Max
1:58 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Max Spevack <mspevack(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) wrote:
> Couldn't it be a nice interactive map showing where our contributors are ?
>
> Like say, what I'm trying to build here: http://fedorahosted.org/shomyu
Yes, yes it could! Good work! Is there anyone else helping you? Don't you
eventually need to get data out of the FAS for this to really work?
Nope, I'm alone ATM (but would accept any help as I have very few time
to hack on it, see the frequency of commits to the git repository :( )
For the FAS stuff, well, right now I'm trying to have shomyu actually
work properly :)
Once it is suitable, if we want to use it the Fedora Infrastructure,
then yes, it'll need to use the FAS bindings (guess why I developed it
in python ? ;)
In the future, I'd love to see it integrated in our MyFedora project
(for contributors to locate themselves), as well as in a public page
for (people to consult).
But once again, it is in an early development stage, and help is very welcome :)
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
11:56 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
Am Dienstag 17 Februar 2009 18:49:40 schrieb Mathieu Bridon (bochecha):
Couldn't it be a nice interactive map showing where our
contributors are ?
Like say, what I'm trying to build here: http://fedorahosted.org/shomyu
Rahul started a Frappr Map years ago - did not know if this is still
maintained?
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
2:01 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
2009/2/17 Joerg Simon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org>:
Am Dienstag 17 Februar 2009 18:49:40 schrieb Mathieu Bridon
(bochecha):
> Couldn't it be a nice interactive map showing where our contributors are ?
>
> Like say, what I'm trying to build here: http://fedorahosted.org/shomyu
Rahul started a Frappr Map years ago - did not know if this is still
maintained?
Frappr is:
1. a non free (as in free speech) service
2. a service where _your_ data are not stored in _your_ infrastructure
(guess how they can provide for free as in free beer ?)
3. using a non-free technology, flash (and it doesn't even work with
the free flash players available in fedora)
Can we really even think about using it for promoting and developing
free software ?
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
2:18 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
Am Mittwoch 18 Februar 2009 09:01:05 schrieb Mathieu Bridon (bochecha):
> Rahul started a Frappr Map years ago - did not know if this is
still
> maintained?
Frappr is:
1. a non free (as in free speech) service
2. a service where _your_ data are not stored in _your_ infrastructure
(guess how they can provide for free as in free beer ?)
3. using a non-free technology, flash (and it doesn't even work with
the free flash players available in fedora)
Can we really even think about using it for promoting and developing
free software ?
maybe that's the reason why it is dead ;)
cu Joerg
--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
11:50 a.m.
New subject: [Famsco-list] Re: [Discussion] Reporting template for ambassadors.
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Max Spevack wrote:
I think this is one useful action item, good for someone who enjoys
policy and process.
I don't mean to make it sound like that is decided -- I was just
offering my opinion.
I think that making the CountryList page more interactive is another,
and that is good for someone who wants to work with the Fedora Account
System, or who wants to bribe one of the Websites/Infrastructure/FAS
guys to help them out.
This, I think we should definitely do. And if this existed, it would
make it crucial that the results returned are for people who *want* to
get emails from potential newbies.
===
The risk of alienating someone only exists if a person is "removed" from
their role as an Ambassador without being asked first.
If a person is told "hey, you're an Ambassador, so if $FOO or $BAR
happens, will you be eager to deal with it?" and the answer is "no" then
it makes sense to say "well, then let's take you off the list of people
who might be asked to do $FOO or $BAR until you want to be added back on
to it."
--Max
5555
days inactive
5556
days old
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
9 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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inode0 -
Joerg Simon -
Mathieu Bridon -
Max Spevack -
susmit shannigrahi