9:27 p.m.
After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions and
also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
am coming from.
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
small.
Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
archives of the marketing list.
What happened to the Marketing project?
It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
marketing project was allowed to die.
Why is the Ambassadors list private?
The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
What can we do to make things better?
I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
--
Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>
Fedora Marketing Projects
9:44 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Hi,
I might reply to this original mail in parts, taking something that
struck me first up.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
I am tempted to answer to this as depends :) There is a reason to this.
A first hand experience with FUDConDelhi2006 proves that it is necessary
to make a splash. However, the fun bit was that the splash has started
off a chain of smaller events where at least someone is talking about
Fedora or holding a BoF. Bigger events sometimes have a distinctly
different agenda from the core Fedora desirables but they do get the
project more eyeballs. Smaller ones (half day/3 hours) allow us to
spread love evenly and sure they do count.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
Taking a leaf from OpenOffice.org - the MarCons (Marketing Contacts)
*are* regional Ambassadors (though never explicitly stated) and
participate in somewhat extent in strategy sessions and directions.
Ambassadors should be part of Marketing List but not vice-versa. The
Ambassador role is a smaller focussed subset of the Marketing Role.
Warm regards
Sankarshan
- --
You see things; and you say 'Why?';
But I dream things that never were;
and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw
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10:07 a.m.
On Thursday 09 March 2006 21:44, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
I am tempted to answer to this as depends :) There is a reason to
this.
A first hand experience with FUDConDelhi2006 proves that it is necessary
to make a splash. However, the fun bit was that the splash has started
off a chain of smaller events where at least someone is talking about
Fedora or holding a BoF. Bigger events sometimes have a distinctly
different agenda from the core Fedora desirables but they do get the
project more eyeballs. Smaller ones (half day/3 hours) allow us to
spread love evenly and sure they do count.
This is why we must take advantage of the larger events. They can be a
valuable way to create a drive behind our smaller events. Our smaller events
are where we can really win new users and contributors.
> Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
>
> I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
> Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
> for greater input.
Taking a leaf from OpenOffice.org - the MarCons (Marketing Contacts)
*are* regional Ambassadors (though never explicitly stated) and
participate in somewhat extent in strategy sessions and directions.
Ambassadors should be part of Marketing List but not vice-versa. The
Ambassador role is a smaller focussed subset of the Marketing Role.
Exactly! The "MarCons" were something we looked at closely while developing
the Ambassadors program. The Ambassadors should participate in our marketing
development, but that is not their purpose, and should not be a primary
focus. That part should be taken care of by our Marketing project. The
goals of each are close, but different. The Marketing project should be
revived to fulfill its purposes, allowing Ambassadors to focus on the stated
goals of this project.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
9:49 p.m.
My comments inline.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions
and
also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
am coming from.
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
Perhaps this is a problem with how we structure the meetings. It's an
hour of "talking about upcoming events" and sometimes not much else. I
think this is largely a problem of scalability.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
I agree.
What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
small.
I strongly agree. This was the initial charter for the Ambassadors
project.
Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
archives of the marketing list.
What happened to the Marketing project?
It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
marketing project was allowed to die.
The Ambassadors project is strongly focused on clear action: get people in
front of other people to talk about Fedora, with the tools required to
do so intelligently.
Why is the Ambassadors list private?
The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
Do we need to revisit this? I honestly don't even remember if the
archives are public or private.
What can we do to make things better?
I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
There's a natural bleed-over, and because I'm on both lists, I don't even
notice when that bleed-over has occured.
Marketing is a good place for generating ideas. The still-open question:
is it a good place for generating action? Not without strong leadership.
Possibly even fairly autocratic leadership.
The problem with marketing is that "the right path" is usually not nearly
as clear as in engineering matters.
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
10:35 p.m.
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 22:49 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
My comments inline.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
> After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions and
> also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
> am coming from.
>
> Why are we ambassadors?
>
> I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
> through Slides and structured content.
>
> Do small events count?
>
> I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
> ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
> leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
> that count. Everything else is just filler.
Perhaps this is a problem with how we structure the meetings. It's an
hour of "talking about upcoming events" and sometimes not much else. I
think this is largely a problem of scalability.
> Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
>
> I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
> Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
> for greater input.
I agree.
> What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
>
> They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
> small.
I strongly agree. This was the initial charter for the Ambassadors
project.
> Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
>
> For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
> archives of the marketing list.
>
> What happened to the Marketing project?
>
> It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
> created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
> marketing project was allowed to die.
The Ambassadors project is strongly focused on clear action: get people in
front of other people to talk about Fedora, with the tools required to
do so intelligently.
> Why is the Ambassadors list private?
>
> The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
> from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
Do we need to revisit this? I honestly don't even remember if the
archives are public or private.
> What can we do to make things better?
>
> I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
> of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
> part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
> Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
> "stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
There's a natural bleed-over, and because I'm on both lists, I don't even
notice when that bleed-over has occured.
Marketing is a good place for generating ideas. The still-open question:
is it a good place for generating action? Not without strong leadership.
Possibly even fairly autocratic leadership.
The problem with marketing is that "the right path" is usually not nearly
as clear as in engineering matters.
--g
-------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org
Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
-------------------------------------------------------------
From https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
About Fedora-ambassadors-list
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
Fedora-ambassadors-list Archives. (The current archive is only available
to the list members.)
I personally do not think this needs to change as long as we ask
Ambassadors to be members of the public marketing list and discuss
community items there.
--
Robert 'Bob' Jensen <marketing-list(a)fedoralinks.org>
Fedora Marketing Projects
9:55 p.m.
I think these are very important points that are long overdue. We've been
trucking along without paying enough attention to these issues as they have
continued to develop.
On Thursday 09 March 2006 21:27, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions
and
also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
am coming from.
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
I have participated in the Ambassadors program in the hopes of expanding my
past participation in the Marketing program to spread Fedora in my local
area.
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
In placing our top priorities on the larger projects, we have allowed the
smaller ones to fall into the background, losing the valuable attention they
deserve. A grass-roots approach is how we started out, how we've gotten this
far, and how I think we should continue, using the larger events to support
that effort.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
The policy of the Fedora Project has always been to remain as transparent as
possible. Anything that doesn't need to be private should be taken to more
public lists. Allowing access to archives simply isn't enough to engage the
public audience.
What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
small.
...and events shouldn't be our only focus. There are plenty of important ways
that Ambassadors can spread Fedora without events. We can't forget that.
Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
archives of the marketing list.
Community Marketing Contacts. The Ambassadors program was originally intended
to provide a public and local-level voice for the Marketing program, not to
replace it.
What happened to the Marketing project?
It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
marketing project was allowed to die.
The way the Marketing program disappeared was very unfortunate. It should not
have been allowed to happen that way. Ambassadors does not obsolete
Marketing, it supplements it. There are many objectives that are not within
the stated goals of the Ambassadors, and the Marketing program should be
revived to fulfill those objectives.
Why is the Ambassadors list private?
The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
I think we were also trying to prevent pollution of the list with the wrong
types of messages. In some respects, we have failed. IIRC, the archives are
open. Perhaps we should consider making a separate list, read-only, that
will duplicate all ambassadors-list messages and has open subscriptions.
This would allow outsiders to follow the list without regularly checking the
archives.
What can we do to make things better?
I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
Reviving Marketing has been on my mind for some time. This is something I
would really like to take on, but we'll have to take on some of these other
issues to make it happen the way it should and allow our projects to be all
that they can be.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
10:12 p.m.
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 21:27 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
Only partly for me.
Structured content are good to some extent. We mustn't forget bofs,
install fest, and general cheer leading.
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
This is the exact opposite in my eyes.
I was at both foss.in and LinuxAsia. (4k people at the first, IIRC)
Which were major events, and I was at the booth at FOSS.in for all 4
days.
Both were major FOSS events, and, <surprise, surprise> everyone already
knew what Fedora was. In fact, trying to promote fedora at any foss
event (to me) appears redundant.
Yes, it is important that people know the latest and best of what going
around the fedora world, but more important than that is to get people
who use entirely proprietary software in to fedora.
And you don't see such people at large events.
These people usually loaf around college tech-fests... in fact, I've
pulled random people off my college corridors and given them a lecture
on free software, and lent them MY FC4 CDs.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
po-tay-to, po-taaa-to.
How difficult is it, really, to get on the ambassadors list?
We set some bare minimum, but actually the only thing you need to get
onto this list is a valid name, and email.
Anyone who wants to get on the ambassadors list needs only to prove that
he has some interest in spreading the freedom, which he will have by
definition if he plans on contributing on the Marketing List. The only
exception being the media, but we can ping the marketing list every time
we reach a benchmark.
<apologies to all the 'she's who are reading this for the use of
'he'>
What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
small.
+1000000
What happened to the Marketing project?
It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
marketing project was allowed to die.
Well, in my opinion, the Marketing list is deprecated.
The ambassadors list gives structure to what the marketing list does.
And further more, the Ambassadors project gives everyone a chance to
participate as a PEER in the project.
IMO, the marketing project just lacked that, plus the term is rather
derogatory for those of us who want to be hackers.
What can we do to make things better?
I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
Hmmm, I disagree...
Ambassadors should be the front end. Yes, I think marketing shouldn't
die. But I'd really appreciate a specific answer to this question:
`What can Marketing do better than the Ambassadors?`.
better = [faster, more efficient, reach more people].
I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
I have given flame bait.
Flame away.
Just another core dump of
/dev/peanut (my brain ;)
Gja
--
Tejas Dinkar - tejasdinkar AT gmail DOT com
http://www.gja.in
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
10:01 a.m.
On Thursday 09 March 2006 22:12, Tejas Dinkar wrote:
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 21:27 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen
wrote:
> Why are we ambassadors?
>
> I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
> through Slides and structured content.
Only partly for me.
Everyone would provide a slightly different reason for helping. We need
everyone contributing in a way that takes advantage of their strengths. As
long as their goals are in line with the goals of the project, the diversity
only helps to form a healthy program.
Structured content are good to some extent. We mustn't forget bofs,
install fest, and general cheer leading.
Yes! The lack of attention to these things is something we need to work on.
> Do small events count?
>
> I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
> ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
> leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
> that count. Everything else is just filler.
This is the exact opposite in my eyes.
I was at both foss.in and LinuxAsia. (4k people at the first, IIRC)
Which were major events, and I was at the booth at FOSS.in for all 4
days.
Both were major FOSS events, and, <surprise, surprise> everyone already
knew what Fedora was. In fact, trying to promote fedora at any foss
event (to me) appears redundant.
Yes, it is important that people know the latest and best of what going
around the fedora world, but more important than that is to get people
who use entirely proprietary software in to fedora.
And you don't see such people at large events.
These people usually loaf around college tech-fests... in fact, I've
pulled random people off my college corridors and given them a lecture
on free software, and lent them MY FC4 CDs.
This is exactly the sort of thing we need to encourage and support. Clearly,
we aren't doing enough to put the focus on these smaller efforts. Many
people in the Ambassadors program are content to ignore these ideas, waiting
for large events where they can request merchandise and participate with
hundreds or thousands of others. It is these little thing that should be our
focus, with the larger events just being a way to support our established
community.
> Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
>
> I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
> Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
> for greater input.
po-tay-to, po-taaa-to.
How difficult is it, really, to get on the ambassadors list?
We set some bare minimum, but actually the only thing you need to get
onto this list is a valid name, and email.
Anyone who wants to get on the ambassadors list needs only to prove that
he has some interest in spreading the freedom, which he will have by
definition if he plans on contributing on the Marketing List. The only
exception being the media, but we can ping the marketing list every time
we reach a benchmark.
<apologies to all the 'she's who are reading this for the use of
'he'>
Unfortunately, that's not the case. We have a strict set of requirements to
have each person become an Ambassador and prove themselves before they may
join the Ambassadors list. The Marketing list is open this way, but this
list is rather exclusive. We don't *want* everyone to be part of this list.
That's why we need to do a better job of sorting out which mail should go to
which list.
> What happened to the Marketing project?
>
> It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
> created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
> marketing project was allowed to die.
Well, in my opinion, the Marketing list is deprecated.
The ambassadors list gives structure to what the marketing list does.
And further more, the Ambassadors project gives everyone a chance to
participate as a PEER in the project.
IMO, the marketing project just lacked that, plus the term is rather
derogatory for those of us who want to be hackers.
Neither of these lists is targeted at "hackers". They do have very different
purposes, and the Marketing list should NOT be deprecated in any sense. It
was horrible leadership that allowed the Marketing list to die and be
replaced by this list, which does not serve the same purpose. Both should be
kept alive to serve their separate and important duties.
> What can we do to make things better?
>
> I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
> of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
> part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
> Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
> "stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
Hmmm, I disagree...
Ambassadors should be the front end. Yes, I think marketing shouldn't
die. But I'd really appreciate a specific answer to this question:
`What can Marketing do better than the Ambassadors?`.
better = [faster, more efficient, reach more people].
This is a matter of the scope of the Ambassadors program. Ambassadors are NOT
intended to develop our Marketing strategy or plan our initiatives. They are
NOT meant to produce the Marketing materials. They are meant only to be a
voice and point of contact. They are very, very important as that voice and
are our "front" at the local level. The Marketing program is meant to
provide our global voice and to develop our marketing that is to be used by
the Ambassadors and our other projects and venues to deliver Fedora's ideas.
> I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
> about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
I have given flame bait.
Flame away.
If we start to flame war, are we really doing our jobs? We don't need a
battle, we need cooperation to assure that we are doing The Right Thing. I
think the Ambassadors team is a strong team (dare I say "of friends") that
has an opportunity to make a difference. In order to do that, we must make
sure we keep focus and hold on to our goals. We need to make sure that each
of Ambassadors and Marketing are doing things in a way that best serves the
Fedora Project and our community. Ambassadors and Marketing have slightly
different goals, and allowing them to become polluted only hurts their shared
goals.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
10:25 p.m.
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
I am not agree, our role goes further, Ambassador for everyone to get
started in FOSS with this fantastic OS.
We are walkers of FOSS...or not¿?
Pablo Barrera Franco
Fedora Ambassador - Argentina
2:49 p.m.
Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions and
also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
am coming from.
Why are we ambassadors?
I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
through Slides and structured content.
That works fine.
Do small events count?
I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
that count. Everything else is just filler.
Why do you feel so? We have been entertaining all sort of requests
within the limitations of our funds.
Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
for greater input.
Yes, definitely but remember that there are many projects such as GNOME,
openoffice.org that have their own private marketing lists. It is
required for various things were incrementally working on something with
public feedback isnt that effective. A press release for example.
What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
small.
We try to as a goal. We have to understand though that we wont be ever
meeting it completely.
Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
archives of the marketing list.
To have a regional focus and participate in events. To shrink and focus
on specific aspects of marketing rather than losing track and discussing
random things.
What happened to the Marketing project?
It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
marketing project was allowed to die.
Allowed to die is misleading. There is nothing stopping people from
doing things that needs to be done out there. I still send feedback on
reviews on the marketing list regularly.
Why is the Ambassadors list private?
The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
To stage initial promotional activities and make a better splash when we
accomplish things.
What can we do to make things better?
I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
If we want to go ahead and continue marketing discussions on that list,
I dont see any roadblocks on that.
--
Rahul
4:17 a.m.
I completely agree with Rahul
On 3/11/06, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
>After 4 months in the ambassador project I have several questions and
>also some opinions. I will answer my own questions so you know where I
>am coming from.
>
>Why are we ambassadors?
>
>I am an ambassador so I can better present Fedora to groups of people
>through Slides and structured content.
>
>
That works fine.
>Do small events count?
>
>I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
>ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
>leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
>that count. Everything else is just filler.
>
>
Why do you feel so? We have been entertaining all sort of requests
within the limitations of our funds.
>Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
>
>I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
>Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
>for greater input.
>
>
>
Yes, definitely but remember that there are many projects such as GNOME,
openoffice.org that have their own private marketing lists. It is
required for various things were incrementally working on something with
public feedback isnt that effective. A press release for example.
>What should the ambassadors project and list focus on?
>
>They should focus on supporting Ambassadors and events no matter how
>small.
>
>
We try to as a goal. We have to understand though that we wont be ever
meeting it completely.
>Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
>
>For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
>archives of the marketing list.
>
>
To have a regional focus and participate in events. To shrink and focus
on specific aspects of marketing rather than losing track and discussing
random things.
>What happened to the Marketing project?
>
>It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
>created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
>marketing project was allowed to die.
>
>
Allowed to die is misleading. There is nothing stopping people from
doing things that needs to be done out there. I still send feedback on
reviews on the marketing list regularly.
>Why is the Ambassadors list private?
>
>The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
>from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
>
>
To stage initial promotional activities and make a better splash when we
accomplish things.
>What can we do to make things better?
>
>I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
>of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
>part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
>Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
>"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
>
>I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
>about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
>
>
If we want to go ahead and continue marketing discussions on that list,
I dont see any roadblocks on that.
--
Rahul
--
Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list
Fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
9:44 a.m.
On Friday 10 March 2006 14:49, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>Do small events count?
>
>I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
>ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
>leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
>that count. Everything else is just filler.
Why do you feel so? We have been entertaining all sort of requests
within the limitations of our funds.
A very poor job has been done of giving attention to these events. It isn't
just about sending merchandise. That's really a tertiary goal at best.
First and foremost, we must make sure that people have the information and
promotional materials to effectively spread Fedora at these smaller events.
We must listen to feedback and suggestions that come out of these events. We
must stand behind those who go to these events, and let them know that they
are every bit as important as those who go to the larger events. We can't
achieve our goals without these small events.
Evidence of our failures in this regard can be seen in our callus approach to
people who haven't attended large events or are unable to do so. We have had
people entirely brushed aside and treated as though they were unable to
contribute in a useful way. People have left the program over it. They
aren't getting the attention and help they need and deserve. It isn't about
hand-holding. We can orchestrate our efforts to better support the smaller
events and independent efforts that really form the foundation of what we do.
It wasn't large events that got us to where we are today.
>Should ambassadors be members of the marketing list?
>
>I think they should. Many ideas that have been posted to the PRIVATE
>Ambassadors list should have been posted to the PUBLIC Marketing list
>for greater input.
Yes, definitely but remember that there are many projects such as GNOME,
openoffice.org that have their own private marketing lists. It is
required for various things were incrementally working on something with
public feedback isnt that effective. A press release for example.
This list isn't supposed to serve such purposes. The Ambassadors are meant
only to take our global voice to a local level. Press releases, for example,
are NOT the business of the Ambassadors. That is something that can be
handled elsewhere. Everything we do is intended to be transparent, and that
includes all of our drafting, so gathering feedback about press release
drafts is something we can do on the Marketing list. These sorts of things
also require cooperating with the Documentation project and other key
contributors, such as the release engineers and key developers.
The Ambassadors list should NOT be thought of as a private Marketing list.
That isn't what it's for. Anything we discuss here can and should be public
knowledge. I think we should open the archives and create a mirroring,
read-only form of the list for the rest of the community.
It's time to stop using the Ambassadors list as a staging list. This is a
forum to further the goals of the Ambassadors, not to test out our Marketing
programs. I don't object to pointing out new efforts to Ambassadors through
the list, as they should know about and provide feedback on our new ideas.
This is why I agree that Ambassadors should be on the Marketing list.
>Where did the Ambassadors project come from?
>
>For more information on this you will have to look at the Oct 2005
>archives of the marketing list.
To have a regional focus and participate in events. To shrink and focus
on specific aspects of marketing rather than losing track and discussing
random things.
You got the first sentence right. We aren't about focusing on aspects of
Marketing. We're about providing local attention, by both providing
information and gathering feedback. Ambassadors are meant to take our
marketing to the public at a personal level, not develop our marketing.
>What happened to the Marketing project?
>
>It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
>created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
>marketing project was allowed to die.
Allowed to die is misleading. There is nothing stopping people from
doing things that needs to be done out there. I still send feedback on
reviews on the marketing list regularly.
"Allowed to die" is a perfect description of what happened. After the
Ambassadors program was formed, traffic on the Marketing list dropped off
dramatically, all focus was placed on Ambassadors, the original focus of
Marketing was lost, marketing initiatives started appearing among the
Ambassadors instead of in the Marketing project where they should have been,
and everything within the Marketing program began to rot.
>Why is the Ambassadors list private?
>
>The Ambassadors list was made private as I remember to prevent people
>from signing up just to get free stuff and promo items.
To stage initial promotional activities and make a better splash when we
accomplish things.
Wrong. The Ambassadors program isn't for staging anything. See above. The
list was made private to prevent pollution of the list by non-Ambassadors.
It was intended to allow us to keep focus on our goals and initiatives.
While we have succeeded in limiting the list to Ambassadors, the list has
still become polluted with wrong ideas. We need to clean up.
>What can we do to make things better?
>
>I think we need to re-ignite the Marketing project as the driving force
>of Fedora Marketing. Bring Marketing Tasks back in to the Public view,
>part of this will be to Focus the Ambassadors project on supporting
>Ambassadors in getting to events and related items including giveaway
>"stuff" and keep Marketing in the marketing list.
>
>I am sure more will come from me later, this will be plenty to talk
>about for now. If anyone has the guts to that is.
If we want to go ahead and continue marketing discussions on that list,
I dont see any roadblocks on that.
Marketing work needs to return to the Marketing program. Let the Ambassadors
focus on the program's true purpose. We can get things done in a much better
way if we get thing working the way they were intended to work in the
beginning.
--
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com
http://www.n-man.com/
Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--
2:51 a.m.
Patrick Barnes wrote:
On Friday 10 March 2006 14:49, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>>Do small events count?
>>
>>I do not think our current format lends itself to discussing general
>>ideas of bringing Fedora to the masses. I get the feeling that our
>>leadership is of the opinion that large high profile events are the ones
>>that count. Everything else is just filler.
>>
>>
>Why do you feel so? We have been entertaining all sort of requests
>within the limitations of our funds.
>
>
A very poor job has been done of giving attention to these events. It isn't
just about sending merchandise. That's really a tertiary goal at best.
First and foremost, we must make sure that people have the information and
promotional materials to effectively spread Fedora at these smaller events.
We must listen to feedback and suggestions that come out of these events. We
must stand behind those who go to these events, and let them know that they
are every bit as important as those who go to the larger events. We can't
achieve our goals without these small events.
Lets me put it this way. There is a lot of focus on the smaller events
too happening off list on many occasions because people have been
contacting me in private. If there was concerns about this, it should
have raised long back.
This list isn't supposed to serve such purposes. The Ambassadors
are meant
only to take our global voice to a local level. Press releases, for example,
are NOT the business of the Ambassadors.
Why not? Aren't anyone here interested in giving us feedback on these?
You got the first sentence right. We aren't about focusing on aspects of
Marketing. We're about providing local attention, by both providing
information and gathering feedback. Ambassadors are meant to take our
marketing to the public at a personal level, not develop our marketing.
>>What happened to the Marketing project?
>>
>>It would seem that leadership lost focus, the Ambassadors project was
>>created from this lack of focus as a subproject and the general
>>marketing project was allowed to die.
>>
>>
>Allowed to die is misleading. There is nothing stopping people from
>doing things that needs to be done out there. I still send feedback on
>reviews on the marketing list regularly.
>
>
"Allowed to die" is a perfect description of what happened. After the
Ambassadors program was formed, traffic on the Marketing list dropped off
dramatically, all focus was placed on Ambassadors, the original focus of
Marketing was lost, marketing initiatives started appearing among the
Ambassadors instead of in the Marketing project where they should have been,
and everything within the Marketing program began to rot.
I have been posting the same things I post to the marketing list
regularly in the same fashion that I used to do before the ambassadors
list. So I dont agree with that analysis. How many people here posted to
the marketing list on any attempts to revive the focus if you felt it
was lacking?
--
Rahul
6620
days inactive
6622
days old
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Aks -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Pablo Barrera Franco -
Patrick W. Barnes -
Rahul Sundaram -
Robert 'Bob' Jensen -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay -
Tejas Dinkar