Re: [Ambassadors] Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Sascha Thomas Spreitzer]

Hello,

my opinion is:

1. There is no legal/contract/agreement/signed thing as of law
requirements, that any contributor must obey board decisions
( As the fedora project is no incorporation of any form the, Fedora
board is not put into force of any legal form or body. )
( FP members/contributors have not signed any contract/agreement which
puts any force upon them. )

2. There is no legal requirement that EMEA ambassadors are in the need
of any approval at all.

= EMEA Ambassadors proceeding with their freedom of contribution ->
spread media as they wish

PS.:
One might argue the force to decide this comes with the trademark
rights, which are involved.
But, then it would be clear, it is a RedHat decision.

best wishes,
Sascha

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards,
Sascha Thomas Spreitzer

http://spreitzer.name/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sspreitzer

Warum mache ich überhaupt dieses ganze OpenSource Zeugs?
Lesen Sie hier, warum;
http://de.windows7sins.org/

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Matt Domsch]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Sascha Thomas Spreitzer
<sspreitzer(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Hello,
>
>  my opinion is:
>
>  1. There is no legal/contract/agreement/signed thing as of law
>  requirements, that any contributor must obey board decisions
>  ( As the fedora project is no incorporation of any form the, Fedora
>  board is not put into force of any legal form or body. )
>  ( FP members/contributors have not signed any contract/agreement which
>  puts any force upon them. ) 
Volunteer projects rarely have the cooperation of its participants
through use of legal force. Cooperation, concensus-building, and the
desire by the participants to achieve a common goal all direct our
actions, even when we might appear at odds.

>  2. There is no legal requirement that EMEA ambassadors are in the
> need
>  of any approval at all. 
This is not a "Board vs Ambassadors" fight, and I object to the
trivial characterization thereof.  It does not benefit anyone to look
at this through that clouded lens.  We are both trying to achieve the
same goals, the only serious concern being the timing to introduce
this new method of software delivery.

No one thinks what Christoph suggested is a bad idea - on the
contrary, it's very interesting.  The only concern is that this change
is coming very late in our release cycle, and it is directly in the
critical path of the user experience we currently deliver, the
combination of the two is why the Board and other teams have been
hesitant to jump in wholeheartedly.

>  = EMEA Ambassadors proceeding with their freedom of contribution
> ->
>  spread media as they wish 
The Project as a whole has funds which are used by the Ambassadors to
create media.  While some Ambassador teams may produce their own media
with their own private funds, I believe that the majority of the funds
used to produce media to give away come from the Project's Community
Architecture budget.  Therefore it is in the best interest of the
Project as a whole to ensure that the media, in many ways our "best
first impression" for users, be a well-thought-out and prepared user
experience.  I don't personally think it's a good idea for different
sets of Ambassadors to produce wildly different media, all under the
same name of Fedora.  If, as Christoph has found out, the price for
dual-layer DVDs has fallen to the point where we can easily make use
of that technology to provide an enhanced user experience, we
absolutely should look at what that experience should be.  The
proposal on the table is quick and simple - I grant it that, but if we
really have 9GB to work with, the "choose your desktop environment at
boot time" model isn't the one I'd naturally gravitate towards.  I'd
much prefer to see a well-integrated environment, where at runtime the
user can choose their desktop environment trivially, and through the
reduction of space taken up by duplicate RPMs from the different
squashfs images, be able to showcase more applications directly.

Thanks,
Matt

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Brandon Lozza]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Matt Domsch <matt(a)domsch.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Sascha Thomas Spreitzer 
I also agree that the media should probably wait for F15 to make the
change. I give my 100% support  behind the idea, but I don't want to
see the release date slip because of a new delivery method.

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Joerg Simon]

Am 24.10.2010 13:36, schrieb Sascha Thomas Spreitzer:
>  my opinion is:
>  1. There is no legal/contract/agreement/signed thing as of law
>  requirements, that any contributor must obey board decisions
>  ( As the fedora project is no incorporation of any form the, Fedora
>  board is not put into force of any legal form or body. )
>  ( FP members/contributors have not signed any contract/agreement which
>  puts any force upon them. ) 

I want to clarify, that the motivation to create this product maybe come
from the wish to hand a multi-desktop DVD out, as a Ambassador on an Event.

But the issue itself is a engineering issue, i think this is the reason
FAmSCo was not involved in this. If the People which are charge in the
Steering Comitees or Board make a decission and things have a clear
reason, i do not think we always have to struggle and fight with them to
protect our own interests.  It is not about law enforcement - a
community is also build of respect. Everyone is free to run for the
Board and participate.

>  2. There is no legal requirement that EMEA ambassadors are in the
> need
>  of any approval at all.
>  = EMEA Ambassadors proceeding with their freedom of contribution ->
>  spread media as they wish 
I am a Ambassador from EMEA and i distance myself from this claim! This
is against the concept of the Fedora Project.

Of course there is no "legal" requirement. But i expect that if we trust
Contributors with ressources, that they use it in a way that is in
consensus with the bodies who are in charge.

cu Joerg

Sascha, i tried to learn and explain you how the Fedora Project works, i
will not go through this once again!
-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Sascha Thomas Spreitzer]

Hello everyone,

> > 2. There is no legal requirement that EMEA ambassadors are in the
> need
> > of any approval at all.
> > = EMEA Ambassadors proceeding with their freedom of contribution ->
> > spread media as they wish
>
>  I am a Ambassador from EMEA and i distance myself from this claim! This
>  is against the concept of the Fedora Project.
>
>  Of course there is no "legal" requirement. But i expect that if we trust
>  Contributors with ressources, that they use it in a way that is in
>  consensus with the bodies who are in charge. 
Christoph pretty much explained and outlined in an understandable way
why this doesn't need any Board involvement or decision at all. I am
in consensus with Christoph and others here and I like the Idea to do
this for F14, because it is doable with almost no efforts.

Regarding my special opinion about FP and the bodies in charge, please
nevermind it. It's very critical.

best wishes,
Sascha

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards,
Sascha Thomas Spreitzer

http://spreitzer.name/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sspreitzer

Warum mache ich überhaupt dieses ganze OpenSource Zeugs?
Lesen Sie hier, warum;
http://de.windows7sins.org/

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Joerg Simon]

Am 25.10.2010 10:17, schrieb Sascha Thomas Spreitzer:
>  Christoph pretty much explained and outlined in an understandable
> way
>  why this doesn't need any Board involvement or decision at all. I am
>  in consensus with Christoph and others here and I like the Idea to do
>  this for F14, because it is doable with almost no efforts.
>  Regarding my special opinion about FP and the bodies in charge, please
>  nevermind it. It's very critical. 

my email was not about the approval of the multi-desktop DVD(this seems
a good thing[thanks for doing it], but not critical for my booth-work),

i just wrote the email to make clear that if you write "EMEA
ambassadors", there are Ambassadors like me who are not ok with - how
you want to achieve and enforce this - with a polemic "EMEA Ambassadors
proceeding ... as they wish"


cu Joerg

-- 
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Christoph Wickert]

2010/10/25 Sascha Thomas Spreitzer <sspreitzer(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;:

>  Christoph pretty much explained and outlined in an understandable
> way
>  why this doesn't need any Board involvement or decision at all. 
Hi Sascha,

this must be a misunderstanding.  I said that I and the other
ambassadors *were* *not* *aware* that we need the approval to use the
trademark.  I think we *do* need the approval because it is a "New
combination[s] of unmodified Fedora software" [1].  I doubt that
anybody had a project like this DVD in mind when this paragraph was
written, but still the wording is clear.  We can't do anything about
it, it's on the board to decide and I hope they will do this today or
at least give us clear instructions how to proceed.

Even though I'm not the most diplomatic person and some of my replies
in this thread are controversial, I still want to do this *with* the
board and not against them.

Regards,
Christoph

Formal request for approval of the multi-desktop DVD (Re: Board meeting recap, 2010 10-18)

[Sascha Thomas Spreitzer]

>  Hi Sascha,
>
>  this must be a misunderstanding.  I said that I and the other
>  ambassadors *were* *not* *aware* that we need the approval to use the
>  trademark.  I think we *do* need the approval because it is a "New
>  combination[s] of unmodified Fedora software" [1].  I doubt that
>  anybody had a project like this DVD in mind when this paragraph was
>  written, but still the wording is clear.  We can't do anything about
>  it, it's on the board to decide and I hope they will do this today or
>  at least give us clear instructions how to proceed.
>
>  Even though I'm not the most diplomatic person and some of my replies
>  in this thread are controversial, I still want to do this *with* the
>  board and not against them. 
Ah ok, thanks chris.

Do we have the approval for F14 or F15?


-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards,
Sascha Thomas Spreitzer

http://spreitzer.name/
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sspreitzer

Warum mache ich überhaupt dieses ganze OpenSource Zeugs?
Lesen Sie hier, warum;
http://de.windows7sins.org/