2:38 p.m.
< mether> ok
< mether> so we can start the meeting now
< jmbuser_> JohnBabich
< mether> RahulSundaram
< Strikeforce> Up to you guys just thought I was late or something :)
< mether> no we have been starting slowly so that people can join in
< Strikeforce> no worries
< mether> who else is around?
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< mether> i was hoping mizmo would be
< mether> but she seems to be not available in irc yet
< mether> here is the list of things I think we should be doing for
the Fedora 8 release
< mether> Artwork - Labels, banners, promos that we can run on the website etc
< mether> Identify which features to highlight - We have a good number
of them and we should figure out any two or three features that are
important
< mether> and promote them specifically
< Strikeforce> When you say artwork you mean in F8 or on the website?
same for Labels, Banners, promos.
< mether> in the website
< mether> not within the distribution
< mether> that work is already done
< mether> the organized focus on interviewing developers going through
all the Fedora 8 features isn't over yet but it is clearly very
successful
< mether> pretty much of them have been referred to from many websites
including digg, lwn.net, osnews.com. lxer etc
< mether> except the first one where we didnt highlight digg properly
all of them got several hundreds digg's and hit the front page
* couftunes in
< mether> the website needs some clean up
< mether> especially on the download page
< mether> and Mo has been working on designing the spins section
< mether> we will have http://spins.fedoraproject.org shortly
< mether> which will explain what a spin is, list out all the
different spins of Fedora, identify how to do your own custom spins
etc
< mether> check out http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47056.html for that
< mether> http://mihmo.livejournal.com/47315.html
< couf> download page is being redsigned as well, see
http://ivazquez.fedorapeople.org/files/fedora-web/get-fedora.html for
an example idea
< mether> i think we should look closely
< mether> at what OpenSUSE and Ubuntu is doing in this space
< mether> I find a list of links to be overwhelming compared to what
they have done
< Strikeforce> Ubuntu has the basic Gnome/KDE and XFCE and then a server version
< Strikeforce> x86 and x86_64
< Strikeforce> so they would have 8 downloads
< Strikeforce> maybe if it started with gnome -> x86 or x86_64 then the links
< mether> we have a choice of spins, dvd or cd. arch, installation methods
< mether> I think http://software.opensuse.org/ is pretty neat
< Strikeforce> I would have to agree
< mether> One thing that we one additional choice that we need to
figure how we can present well
< mether> is the differentiation between
< mether> official and custom spins
< Strikeforce> Should we link them to the front page?
< mether> I think what we need to do
< Strikeforce> Would it not be better to say see what the community is
doing -> and point them that way
< mether> is list only the official spins in the front page
< mether> and link to http://spins.fedoraproject.org
< mether> for more
< mether> front page as in the download page
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< couf> mether: +1
< mether> if we do it well
< mether> we don't have to worry about pushing in whatever spins that come up
< MrTom> 'Hi, sorry for being VERY late)
< mether> I am working on a games, xfce and minimalistic spin
< mether> so I have more than a passive interest in this
< mether> MrTom: hi
< mether> welcome
< couf> so we have the official spins on download + a "interested in a
Fedora remix -> check spins.fp.o" link
< mether> MrTom: http://pastebin.ca/735157 for you to catch up to
previous conversations
< MrTom> thanks mether
< Strikeforce> mether: +1
< mether> couf: right. that's what I think we should do anyway
< mether> I have submitted a request to infrastructure team
< mether> to setup a news site at news.fedoraproject.org
< mether> it might only be launched after Fedora 8 but it will be a
important medium for highlighting the work that goes on into Fedora
and getting some feedback early in the development process
< Strikeforce> +1 again
< Strikeforce> Was going to bring that up :)
< mether> I am an editor for Fedora Weekly News and Fedora Release
Notes and a beat writer for the Ask Fedora and Overview beats
respectively
< mether> all those are part of our broad marketing efforts too
< mether> Infrastructure request is detailed at
https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/178
< mether> if you think I have missed out any details in there, drop
comments in that request or let me know
< mether> everyone who has a Fedora Account can just post comments right away
< couf> mether: you see news.fp.o as a replacement for what was going
on at fedoranews.org?
< mether> The overview section is at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView
< mether> yes
< mether> fedoranews.org would ideally redirect to news.fp.o
< mether> the weekly news is already integrated with the Fedora website
< couf> right, then we should get tchung on that ticket
< mether> I have posted to fedora weekly news
< mether> and discussed this extensively
< mether> with tchung both on and offlist
< couf> ah okay, cool
< mether> so he is already well aware
< mether> fedora news list for more details
< Strikeforce> Should f.o offer howto's specific to fedora?
< mether> not sure what you mean by that?
< Strikeforce> Well there seem to be a lot of questions on equivalents
and what to install what not to install. Generally there are websites
that guide people yet we seem to lack some of that documentation.
< Strikeforce> equivalents = xmms / winamp type of thing
< mether> The only reason we lack any published documents that we need to have
< mether> is lack of contributors getting involved
< mether> other than that, we only cover what we directly include
< Strikeforce> I know with the wiki I created based on ubuntuguide is
getting a heap of hits for some really basic information
< mether> there isn't any reason we couldn't have more information on the
wiki
< mether> published documentation at docs.fp.o has the advantage
< mether> that it well translated
< mether> and more organized
< mether> but wiki can be used to coordinate that effort and generally
used as a sandbox
< mether> some short howto's can remain in the wiki itself
< mether> one example would be http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScreenCasting
< mether> if you prefer the wiki, just write down the content there
and anyone interested in organizing it more and publishing it can pick
it up from there
< couf> right, we might want to add a howto-section to docs.fp.o
< Strikeforce> I didn't know about docs.fp.o can we link that to the
front page. Is there also a way to get feedback to fedora-docs on what
users are struggling with?
< mether> its already there in the front page
< mether> for a few months now
< mether> ever since we launched the new static website
< Strikeforce> ahh mine goes straight to the wiki thats why. My bad.
< mether> posting to fedora-docs list or better yet offering to help
would be nice
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< mether> Fedora Documentation team is already aware that we are
missing documentation but that won't magically appear without people
spending time on it
< JonRob> yeah docs need all the volunteers they can get!
< Strikeforce> I write little howto's so might do that since I'd be
adding them to my site as well as fedora.
< JonRob> (hey all)
< mether> JonRob: hi
< Strikeforce> JonRob: hi
< mether> I am not much of a marketing expert so I have been noting
down details on what Red Hat did with the RHEL 5 launch and learning
from that
< couf> Strikeforce: drop a note to fedora-docs and/or join in the
meeting tomorrow
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< Strikeforce> That website that you emailed to marketing was an
interesting read. I think it'll help in providing focus.
< mether> which website?
< Strikeforce> Is there a way that we can get people's ideas to the
fedoraproject
< mether> depending on what this is
< mether> different sub project mailing lists or bugzilla would be avenues
< mether> for specific things we need feedback on
< mether> we have been running surveys before
< mether> the results are available in the wiki
< mether> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Surveys
< Strikeforce> Could it be something we link with fedoraforum to get
the people that don't participate in mailling lists
< mether> as you can note
< mether> its been a while
< mether> so we might run it once more shortly after
< mether> Fedora 8 launch
< mether> I think we should do that
< mether> the forum, irc etc is linked from
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate
< Strikeforce> I would like a list of areas where people struggle
"website, marketing, docs" a range of stuff that we can allocate
priority to.
< mether> which again is linked from the front page
< mether> like i said we could run a generic survey
< Strikeforce> Try to understand where our 'customers' find frustration
< mether> do you have other ideas?
< Strikeforce> One question
< Strikeforce> Is it illegal in the USA to change an mp3 -> ogg?
< Strikeforce> Since you can buy mp3's online from vendors
< mether> it isn't illegal
< mether> but you need a encoder and a decoder
< mether> installed
< mether> to do that
< Strikeforce> Fedora don't offer that?
< mether> and doing such kind of media decoding
< mether> from one lozzy format to another
< mether> is going to result in loss of quality
< mether> we can't offer either by default, no
< Strikeforce> Trying to come up with ideas on how to combat the mp3 issue
< mether> are you aware of codec buddy?
< Strikeforce> Yeah
< mether> i think it solves that problem
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< Strikeforce> Yeah it does definitely
< mether> and we are working with Red Hat Legal to potentially link to rpmfusion
< mether> as a alternative to Fluendo codecs
< mether> for users from regions that don't enforce software patents
< mether> anything else that we need to look at specifically for Fedora 8?
< Strikeforce> Are we able to get numbers of installations to see if
we are marketing well enough and graph it?
< mether> yes that is ongoing work at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
< mether> and we are discussing with other distributions to adopt smolt
< mether> if they do that, it would be even more helpful
< mether> towards understanding users
< mether> and helping solve some of the problems
< mether> in addition to merely tracking some metrics
< Strikeforce> I agree.
< mether> OpenSUSE 10.3 already includes Smolt
< mether> and they have been evaluating integration by default
< mether> we are also discussing it with Mandriva and Ubuntu
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< Strikeforce> That's good to hear.
< mether> if you have contacts in other distributions
< mether> talk to them
< mether> there is a lot of development coordination that is possible too
< mether> system-config-printer is included by default in the upcoming
Ubuntu version for example
< mether> JonRob: still there?
< Strikeforce> That's good to hear.
< jmbuser_> +1
< mether> we are going to be using hosted.fedoraproject.org for all
the system-config* tools so that the source isnt just in the srpms
< mether> thats the plan anyway
< Strikeforce> Apologies to all I have to leave right now have a
birthday party to attend. I've signed up with doc's at the moment will
send an introduction letter later on.
< mether> see ya
< mether> if anyone else have other ideas that we need to discuss, let me know
< JonRob> mether: yeah sorry
< JonRob> but i do have to dash again shortly :S turns out not such a
good time for me!
< mether> JonRob: it's ok. I just wanted to know how the interviews
are progressing
< JonRob> Strikefoce: bye!
< JonRob> mether: yeah not bad...i've got transifex to go up this coming week
< JonRob> and i'm waiting for answers about pulse audio
< JonRob> which i may try and chase up (politely)
< JonRob> beyond that i need to get more questions sent out now
< mether> ya, he has been busy
< mether> what about the interview with chitlesh goorah
< JonRob> yeah i appreciate that - really appreciate the time all the
developers have given! think it's been worth it thoguh :D
< JonRob> yeah transifex
< JonRob> is ready to go this week
< mether> electronics lab spin
< couf> transifex = dimitris glezos?
< mether> yes
< mether> dimitris has submitted a talk proposal in a conference in
India which is likely to get accepted btw
< JonRob> oh lol yes sorry!
< mether> in December
< JonRob> i'm getting my head in a spin here today
< JonRob> electronics lab is also ready to go :D
< mether> great
< JonRob> mether: cool about dimitris...
< JonRob> other features i really want to cover:
< JonRob> codec buddy
< JonRob> firewall config
< JonRob> oh man and my mind is blank again
< JonRob> well they're two good targets for the next few
< mether> right
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< mether> i think we can keep going post release too
< mether> but these two features
< mether> can be published about before the release itself
< mether> if possible
< JonRob> yes definitely
< JonRob> it might be cool to put together a summary article too
< mether> yes
< JonRob> covering all the features with quotes from the devs etc
< mether> i think that should be a pdf file
< JonRob> and then try and get that posted around in the same way as
the interviews
< mether> benefits/features
< JonRob> but save that for close to the release
< JonRob> yeah pdf would be good
< mether> right
< mether>I will start working on that
< JonRob> ok cool
< mether> what else is needed?
< couf> release announcement?
< mether> yeah, documentation team has been taking care of that so far
< mether> and I am all for letting that continue
< mether> if we can get more organized documentation
< JonRob> yeah they do a good job with it
< mether> for creating spins
< mether> that would be good
< mether> from the marketing perspective we really need that
< JonRob> oh shoot - my apologies for that - i had volunteered to do
that sometime ago
< mether> for spins.fp.o
< JonRob> but i've just run out of itme
< couf> JonRob: no prob, we've all got busy lives
< mether> if anyone wants to look into again, please do.
< JonRob> what i got so far is on the docs project wiki space
< JonRob> i think what would be most useful is a really simple break down though
< mether> yep
< JonRob> at least for the immediate future
< mether> ok
< mether> anything else or shall we wind up now?
< JonRob> http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/documentation
< JonRob> fedora unity have done a pretty good job themselves actually
< JonRob> we should at least point to that somehwere
< mether> one of the problems
< mether> is that documentation on spins
< mether> is very much scattered
< mether> all over the place
< mether> fedora unity docs can be copied
< mether> directly
< mether> the license is the same
< mether> FYI
< JonRob> ok cool - wel maybe if we add their documentation to the docs.fp.org
< JonRob> ?
< JonRob> with a bit of editing?
< mether> we should
< JonRob> maybe this is more a matter for docs team to discuss?
< mether> that would be about an hour of work
< mether> to clean it up
< mether> merge it with the existing docs in the wiki
< mether> and publish it
< JonRob> shall i post to the docs list about this?
< mether> I have added tons of references to
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins
< mether> yes
< couf> JonRob: can you make the docs-meeting tomorrow? (17UTC)
< JonRob> let them know what we've said?
< mether> go ahead
< JonRob> couf: probably not :S
< mether> post to the list
< couf> JonRob: yeah okay, no worries
< mether> needn't wait for the meeting
< mether> --- meeting over ---