Okay guys, I hear what you say BUT Fedora needs basic tools for photos, video, voice chats, and burning DVDs that uses already existing CLI tools in a friendlier GUI. I was only presenting ideas for sub-projects that don't need to be rushed but just worked on little by little. The condensed version is now at http://linuxglobe.wordpress.com, I have to add the Conclusion now, there was no room for it. If anyone like to see the visuals in full glory, let me know a good free photo hosting service, I can accommodate in that manner. Keep talking about ideas, that is what I do all the time on my blogs...
*Markus McLaughlin Hudson, MA, USA*
Quoting Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org:
Markus McLaughlin wrote:
video,
yum install totem is kino in the main fedora repos?
Yes. Also consider Pitivi as well.
and burning DVDs
yum install k3b
Also brasero .
ok, people I got the idea that markus is trying to explain here, fedora as a Linux distro, you can install almost anything you want, BUT its not native from it, the big thing about MAC stuff is that all aplications come with the OS, ALL of it, and it is still a nice OS, becose its well done, the idea that markus is presenting to us, is to compete with the proprietary software for equal to equal, have the same thing they have, just better and free..
I, personally just LOVED the idea of FedoraLife, although I'd like to discuss the name, but the project itself is a VERY GOOD idea, and if we can do this, and keep a clean, fast and powerfull compilation, fedora can really beat a LOT of other linux distros and maybe compete with MAC OS X, lets not forget that almost every MAC OS X user, uses it, becose they want something simple that can solve their problems, and these are the numbers missing on our user count :)
c'mon people let's not be stuburn and make this thing go rigth up!
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Luya Tshimbalanga < luya_tfz@thefinalzone.com> wrote:
Quoting Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org:
Markus McLaughlin wrote:
video,
yum install totem is kino in the main fedora repos?
Yes. Also consider Pitivi as well.
and burning DVDs
yum install k3b
Also brasero .
-- Luya Tshimbalanga Fedora Project contributor http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/LuyaTshimbalanga
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Lucas Saboya wrote:
ok, people I got the idea that markus is trying to explain here, fedora as a Linux distro, you can install almost anything you want, BUT its not native from it,
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
the big thing about MAC stuff is that all aplications come with the OS, ALL of it, and it is still a nice OS, becose its well done, the idea that markus is presenting to us, is to compete with the proprietary software for equal to equal, have the same thing they have, just better and free..
I really doubt OS X has applications that do all of the things a 4 DVD / 23 CD set of media for Fedora would have.
I, personally just LOVED the idea of FedoraLife, although I'd like to discuss the name, but the project itself is a VERY GOOD idea, and if we can do this, and keep a clean, fast and powerfull compilation, fedora can really beat a LOT of other linux distros and maybe compete with MAC OS X, lets not forget that almost every MAC OS X user, uses it, becose they want something simple that can solve their problems, and these are the numbers missing on our user count :)
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is the point to ship everything in the initial install?
What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
c'mon people let's not be stuburn and make this thing go rigth up!
Ready to roll up your sleeves?
~m
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
is kino in the main fedora repos?
Very very short story: kino makes use of ffmpeg for some things so as things stand kino can't really come in to Fedora. Pitivi is what we can ship as an editor. I am not aware of anything else that makes use of gstreamer in the way we need an application to do so we can ship it as a video editor.
Somewhat short story: I've looked at kino a lot in the past few months, even before the fedoratv concept was made public I was looking at the available video editting toolset and took a real hard look at if kino could be included in Fedora..even if it was a crippled kino to get around the ffmpeg requirement. I don't think it would be worth doing... unless we can ship a version of ffmpeg that had the forbidden capabilities stripped out.
Long story: Kino is an interesting case. The way it leverages ffmpeg is as a helper and if we could include a less capable version of ffmpeg tools and libraries..even if they were renamed.. we could ship a functional kino in a way that additional functionality would be re-enabled as soon as a more functional ffmpeg was made available on a client system. FFmpeg has a crap load of things it does well, beyond the forbidden codec support and kino makes use of those abilities to encode different quality of theora. I found a way to replace ffmpeg with gst to export theora, though with less video quality options like interlacing. It was enough as a start. But Kino also makes use of ffmpeg to import source material that is not raw dv. I couldn't find a way to use gstreamer to do what kino needed to import theora as source material. If someone can figure that part out, then we have the ability to ship a useful kino that can mix theora and raw dv together as source material and then export theora.
The problem is, I don't think we can easily ship a cutdown ffmpeg without some major surgery. I don't think we can just set some compile time flags produce binaries with the forbidden capabilities disabled. I dont think all the capabilities that are problematic have compile time switches. And I'm not even sure that would suffice from a legal standpoint. If we had to patch out the capabilities from the source we distributed that would be even harder, I'm not sure all the capabilities are delineated clearly. In either case there would have to be a comprehensive code review of ffmpeg by someone who understood where the legal line was and had the ability to patch out the code. The only person I can think of to do that, is spot. And I haven't asked him to do it, because I think his finite time is better used on other things.
Summary: So right now.. pitivi is the best thing we have access to that we can ship as a video editor to produce theora videos. It can mix theora and raw dv as source material. And talking to J5 it seems that there is a pitivi Google SoC project this summer so we might see a ramp up in its stability and featureset. If I were going to burn whatever remaining street cred I have in the Fedora community on getting an application polished up.. it would be on pitivi. I'm hoping that if we start pumping out videos,even crappy videos, I'll be able to generate enough interest in our userbase and I'll be able to find people in our community with enough technical ability to engage pitivi upstream and help them stablize pitivi and grow its plugin capability. Because I certainly can't do it. But I'll get on my soapbox and sing the praises of the people who can and do.
-jef
Markus McLaughlin wrote:
Okay guys, I hear what you say BUT Fedora needs basic tools for photos, video, voice chats, and burning DVDs that uses already existing CLI tools in a friendlier GUI. I was only presenting ideas for sub-projects
So when are you going to show us some code?
that don't need to be rushed but just worked on little by little. The condensed version is now at http://linuxglobe.wordpress.com, I have to add the Conclusion now, there was no room for it. If anyone like to see the visuals in full glory, let me know a good free photo hosting service, I can accommodate in that manner. Keep talking about ideas, that is what I do all the time on my blogs...
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
I really doubt OS X has applications that do all of the things a 4 DVD / 23
CD set of media for Fedora would have.
No, it really doesn't and this is what kepp MAC OS X so clean, and functional
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is the point to
ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
Ready to roll up your sleeves?
Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?
let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
Lucas Saboya wrote:
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
That is the superset of *all* our packages. With the same tools used to produce it, anyone can create his own subset ("spin") with whatever he think is useful. If he manage to prove the spin is useful for a large category of users, then it can be hosted on Fedora infrastructure (torrent). It is is even more useful than that, then it may get even hosted on the mirrors. The trick is to produce a spin which is useful.
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is the point to ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
It is hard because there are a lot of definition of what "common users" need. For example, it can be argued that common users do not need video/audio editors (see the "fedoraLife" subject of this thread) and that such applications are needed by a niche ("creative").
Ready to roll up your sleeves?Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
The first step is to produce something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
And then, turn the list in a kickstart file. After that, producing the spin is only a matter of clicks.
ok, so lets go modelling the stuff?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Lucas Saboya wrote:
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
That is the superset of *all* our packages. With the same tools used to produce it, anyone can create his own subset ("spin") with whatever he think is useful. If he manage to prove the spin is useful for a large category of users, then it can be hosted on Fedora infrastructure (torrent). It is is even more useful than that, then it may get even hosted on the mirrors. The trick is to produce a spin which is useful.
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is thepoint to ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
It is hard because there are a lot of definition of what "common users" need. For example, it can be argued that common users do not need video/audio editors (see the "fedoraLife" subject of this thread) and that such applications are needed by a niche ("creative").
Ready to roll up your sleeves?Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?
let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
The first step is to produce something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
And then, turn the list in a kickstart file. After that, producing the spin is only a matter of clicks.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
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tFrom what I get Markus is suggesting a "bundled" Fedora which would have all common and cool apps, so users don't have to search/install them.
I think a much reasonable approach would be to give users profiles, but much more focused than the package selector we have upon installation. I see this idea in Ubuntu with its flavors (Studio, Home Server, etc) and Debian with that primitive selector (Server, Notebook, etc).
There could be profiles such as Media Workstation, Developer Workstation, Server, Home User, etc. Those would just select appropriate packages in the already existent package selector in Anaconda.
2008/6/13 Lucas Saboya lucas@cefetce.br:
ok, so lets go modelling the stuff?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Lucas Saboya wrote:
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
That is the superset of *all* our packages. With the same tools used to produce it, anyone can create his own subset ("spin") with whatever he think is useful. If he manage to prove the spin is useful for a large category of users, then it can be hosted on Fedora infrastructure (torrent). It is is even more useful than that, then it may get even hosted on the mirrors. The trick is to produce a spin which is useful.
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is thepoint to ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
It is hard because there are a lot of definition of what "common users" need. For example, it can be argued that common users do not need video/audio editors (see the "fedoraLife" subject of this thread) and that such applications are needed by a niche ("creative").
Ready to roll up your sleeves?Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?
let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
The first step is to produce something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
And then, turn the list in a kickstart file. After that, producing the spin is only a matter of clicks.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
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Good point rafael, I think we can start asking people who uses PCs not for living what they think its usefull to a OS and start compiling a database with this information :) who's with me ? :D
2008/6/13 rafael liu rafaelliu@gmail.com:
tFrom what I get Markus is suggesting a "bundled" Fedora which would have all common and cool apps, so users don't have to search/install them.
I think a much reasonable approach would be to give users profiles, but much more focused than the package selector we have upon installation. I see this idea in Ubuntu with its flavors (Studio, Home Server, etc) and Debian with that primitive selector (Server, Notebook, etc).
There could be profiles such as Media Workstation, Developer Workstation, Server, Home User, etc. Those would just select appropriate packages in the already existent package selector in Anaconda.
2008/6/13 Lucas Saboya lucas@cefetce.br:
ok, so lets go modelling the stuff?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Lucas Saboya wrote:
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
That is the superset of *all* our packages. With the same tools used to produce it, anyone can create his own subset ("spin") with whatever he think is useful. If he manage to prove the spin is useful for a large category of users, then it can be hosted on Fedora infrastructure (torrent). It is is even more useful than that, then it may get even hosted on the mirrors. The trick is to produce a spin which is useful.
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is thepoint to ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
It is hard because there are a lot of definition of what "common users" need. For example, it can be argued that common users do not need video/audio editors (see the "fedoraLife" subject of this thread) and that such applications are needed by a niche ("creative").
Ready to roll up your sleeves?Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?
let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
The first step is to produce something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
And then, turn the list in a kickstart file. After that, producing the spin is only a matter of clicks.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
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+1 Lucas
I don't know whether it would be useful but there could be something like smolt to packages installed. I say it may not be useful because not always people configure the system the way they like the first time, or maybe they don't know what they like, and maybe a lot of trash could get counted in the statistics.
This work could start from the community as we already have very distinct profiles and people would be more careful/thoughtful towards our effort.
2008/6/14 Lucas Saboya lucas@cefetce.br:
Good point rafael, I think we can start asking people who uses PCs not for living what they think its usefull to a OS and start compiling a database with this information :) who's with me ? :D
2008/6/13 rafael liu rafaelliu@gmail.com:
tFrom what I get Markus is suggesting a "bundled" Fedora which would have
all common and cool apps, so users don't have to search/install them.
I think a much reasonable approach would be to give users profiles, but much more focused than the package selector we have upon installation. I see this idea in Ubuntu with its flavors (Studio, Home Server, etc) and Debian with that primitive selector (Server, Notebook, etc).
There could be profiles such as Media Workstation, Developer Workstation, Server, Home User, etc. Those would just select appropriate packages in the already existent package selector in Anaconda.
2008/6/13 Lucas Saboya lucas@cefetce.br:
ok, so lets go modelling the stuff?
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Lucas Saboya wrote:
Actually, the Fedora Unity project releases a DVD and CD set of EVERY SINGLE PACKAGE in Fedora in one set of install media. They call it the "Everything Spin." The problem with this is... it is 4 DVDs or 23 CDs.
Ok, but dont you thing that 4 DVDs ou 23 CDs its a little HUGE amount of data, that sometimes wont be NEVER used by a normal user, that only wants to edit his/her videos or engage into a meeting ?
That is the superset of *all* our packages. With the same tools used to produce it, anyone can create his own subset ("spin") with whatever he think is useful. If he manage to prove the spin is useful for a large category of users, then it can be hosted on Fedora infrastructure (torrent). It is is even more useful than that, then it may get even hosted on the mirrors. The trick is to produce a spin which is useful.
So is the point to make a more usable version of Fedora? Or is thepoint to ship everything in the initial install? What is the goal you are looking to achieve? It seems really unclear to me.
The point is tho make a usable version of fedora, shipping not everything but just the things we KNOW that will help the common users that uses a PC just to do a PART of their work not US who can easily compile our own version of fedora and put everything we want on it. is that so hard to do, thing like common users ?:)
It is hard because there are a lot of definition of what "common users" need. For example, it can be argued that common users do not need video/audio editors (see the "fedoraLife" subject of this thread) and that such applications are needed by a niche ("creative").
Ready to roll up your sleeves?Thats what I'm doing right now :)
So when are you going to show us some code?
let's go codding, so ! But remember that this is not the fedora developer list, its the MARKETING one :) this means, the codding doesn't happen here, the idea of the email is to compile a concept of the programas we can put with fedora to make a clean and functional instalation.
The first step is to produce something like this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/ArtTeamProjects/FedoraArtStudio/Packa...
And then, turn the list in a kickstart file. After that, producing the spin is only a matter of clicks.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
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Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB) -
Luya Tshimbalanga -
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Máirín Duffy -
Nicu Buculei -
rafaelliu -
RazGriz