11:58 p.m.
I'm going to try to chime in from a Marketing standpoint as best I can,
and am Ccing the Marketing list in the hopes that Those Who Know More
Than I can speak about branding here.
To summarize the conversation to date, both to catch up newcomers tothe
conversation and to try and form a better understanding of this for
myself: we have a naming collision problem. (The thread is at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-September/msg00...,
please correct me if I've missed/mis-stated anything.)
The term "Fedora Community" currently refers to three things.
1. The community of contributors working on the Fedora Project (in other
words, "us").
2. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/, a site that helps keep
track of who is packaging what, and what state those packages are in.
3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few (only 2 so
far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was
supposed to be a directory for all such homepages.
Needless, to say, this is confusing, particularly in the case of the two
websites. What should we do? Should one or both of the websites be
renamed/rebranded? If so, which one(s), and what to? How can we adjust?
Some solutions proposed on the list so far:
>> One way we could solve this would be to simply include the
page
>> listing at the Fedora Community portal site somewhere, as static
>> content. Ugh.
>> Renaming fedoracommunity.org is very ugly because people have
been
>> accumulating subdomains there for months. Plus, the domain name was
>> blessed by Legal last year (when we were still talking about
>> "MyFedora") because the domain name helps make it clear that we
don't
>> own the site, and aren't responsible for content.
> So it seems the only choice is to rename Fedora Community. I have
no idea
> what it could be renamed to. Right now it's focused on package maintainers
> but we're hoping to expand it out more...
developers.fedoracommunity.org ?
makeit.fedoracommunity.org?
I think it would be a branch from the overall fedora community.
My thoughts at this point are mainly questions - some of which have
partially been answered in the discussion above.
0. What is the purpose of each website being discussed? (#2,
admin.fedoraproject.org/community and #3, fedoracommunity.org)
1. For each of the websites being discussed, what were the historical
reasons for choosing that name? (Pointers to wiki pages, list archives,
or IRC logs would be great.)
2. For each of the websites being discussed , what would the cost of
renaming it be? (What effort would we have to go through, and how many
people would be affected, in what way?)
--Mel
8:49 a.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009, Mel Chua wrote:
2. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/, a site that helps keep
track of who is packaging what, and what state those packages are in.
Whether on purpose or simply because there is a need to differentiate,
most people refer to this as the Fedora Community Portal, at least that
I've seen.
Maybe it should have its own domain name, as opposed to what is
currently a pretty convoluted domain name for what is a really awesome
webapp?
3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few (only 2
so far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was
supposed to be a directory for all such homepages.
Given what we use *.fedoracommunity.org for, the main index page of
fedoracommunity.org should (ignoring all design options) make it easy
for people to find out what all the subdomains are, right?
--Max
9:02 a.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
> 3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few
(only 2 so
> far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
> http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
> http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was supposed to
> be a directory for all such homepages.
Given what we use *.fedoracommunity.org for, the main index page of
fedoracommunity.org should (ignoring all design options) make it easy for
people to find out what all the subdomains are, right?
Along with a map of those local communities, like the one Susmit made... :-°
----------
Mathieu Bridon (bochecha)
9:37 a.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:58:58AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
I'm going to try to chime in from a Marketing standpoint as best
I can,
and am Ccing the Marketing list in the hopes that Those Who Know More
Than I can speak about branding here.
To summarize the conversation to date, both to catch up newcomers tothe
conversation and to try and form a better understanding of this for
myself: we have a naming collision problem. (The thread is at
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-September/msg00...,
please correct me if I've missed/mis-stated anything.)
The term "Fedora Community" currently refers to three things.
1. The community of contributors working on the Fedora Project (in other
words, "us").
2. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/, a site that helps keep
track of who is packaging what, and what state those packages are in.
3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few (only 2 so
far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was
supposed to be a directory for all such homepages.
Needless, to say, this is confusing, particularly in the case of the two
websites. What should we do? Should one or both of the websites be
renamed/rebranded? If so, which one(s), and what to? How can we adjust?
Some solutions proposed on the list so far:
>>> One way we could solve this would be to simply include the page
>>> listing at the Fedora Community portal site somewhere, as static
>>> content. Ugh.
>>> Renaming fedoracommunity.org is very ugly because people have been
>>> accumulating subdomains there for months. Plus, the domain name was
>>> blessed by Legal last year (when we were still talking about
>>> "MyFedora") because the domain name helps make it clear that we
don't
>>> own the site, and aren't responsible for content.
>> So it seems the only choice is to rename Fedora Community. I have no idea
>> what it could be renamed to. Right now it's focused on package maintainers
>> but we're hoping to expand it out more...
> developers.fedoracommunity.org ?
> makeit.fedoracommunity.org?
> I think it would be a branch from the overall fedora community.
My thoughts at this point are mainly questions - some of which have
partially been answered in the discussion above.
0. What is the purpose of each website being discussed? (#2,
admin.fedoraproject.org/community and #3, fedoracommunity.org)
#2 - the portal project using the Moksha framework for roughtly
real-time, interactive collaboration between contributors; right now
it serves mainly packagers but the plan is to drastically increase
its coverage beyond that group
#3 - a domain used to provide subdomains for local communities at
which localized (translated) original content, forums, etc. are
provided and maintained outside the Fedora Project; offers both
appeal from the perspective of native language, and the ability to
discuss and provide solutions outside Fedora's mission and scope
1. For each of the websites being discussed, what were the historical
reasons for choosing that name? (Pointers to wiki pages, list archives,
or IRC logs would be great.)
[[Local_community_domains]] is probably the most important from the
perspective of the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3).
2. For each of the websites being discussed , what would the cost of
renaming it be? (What effort would we have to go through, and how many
people would be affected, in what way?)
If #3 is only being used by two groups thus far, and if neither has
spent considerable money producing literature or publicity, renaming
that one is probably the better option.
If we really want to know "how did this happen?", my feeling is that
I'm the person at fault here. I recall being not bowled over by the
naming of the portal project (#2) to Fedora Community, but I couldn't
think of why, and I simply failed to put 2 and 2 together with the
fedoracommunity.org domain name. I would say that there wasn't enough
interplay between the FAB list and Infrastructure, where #3 was
discussed and implemented, and Marketing/Moksha, where #2 was going
through that process. And putting those pieces together really is an
FPL responsibility. We have the Logistics list now to coordinate such
things, but didn't back in the winter when #3 was happening (and
probably #2 too).
Having said that, I'd propose that we get in touch with the groups
using the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3) to find out to what extent a
renaming would hamper their community efforts. I'd like to do that
with a Cc: of an appropriate list -- Marketing? Websites? Logistics?
Other?
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
12:55 p.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
Having said that, I'd propose that we get in touch with the
groups
using the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3) to find out to what extent a
renaming would hamper their community efforts. I'd like to do that
with a Cc: of an appropriate list -- Marketing? Websites? Logistics?
Other?
I think Logistics is the right list for this, since it involves
Websites, Infrastructure, and (eventually, when we need to do a
marketing campaign for whatever new names go out there) Marketing, so
I'd start a thread there and send a message to each list saying "hey,
this discussion is happening in Logistics, <link>."
/me is also happy to do the legwork on this if desired. ;)
--Mel
2:12 p.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 01:55:13PM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
> Having said that, I'd propose that we get in touch with the
groups
> using the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3) to find out to what extent a
> renaming would hamper their community efforts. I'd like to do that
> with a Cc: of an appropriate list -- Marketing? Websites? Logistics?
> Other?
I think Logistics is the right list for this, since it involves
Websites, Infrastructure, and (eventually, when we need to do a
marketing campaign for whatever new names go out there) Marketing, so
I'd start a thread there and send a message to each list saying "hey,
this discussion is happening in Logistics, <link>."
/me is also happy to do the legwork on this if desired. ;)
Heherson from the ph.fc.o-using community got in touch with me just a
few minutes ago -- yay list email! -- and had this to say:
<azneita> ping stickster
<stickster> azneita: pong
Hi azneita, what can I do for you?
<azneita> about the ph.fedoracommunity.org domain on the list
what are the current plans for it?
<stickster> So there was a ticket filed for that --
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1221
Ah, sorry: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/946
azneita: So the DNS entry exists for that host
<azneita> nah. about the branding conflict with fedora community app
<stickster> azneita: There's been a discussion on Websites list (and
Markeing)
azneita: Heh, yeah -- just getting to that
I think one of the questions we have to answer is, how much pain does
renaming either of these properties cause
azneita: Since I have you here... :-)
What can you tell me about how that would affect ph.fc.o?
<azneita> for our case, we pretty much maintains two dns entries for
the sites - ph.fc.o and fedora.bluepoint.com.ph
<stickster> In other words, if we were to move the 2nd level domain
to, say, "fedoralocales.org" (just an example, not really a name yet)
-- what kind of problems would that cause for your community in the
Phillipines?
<azneita> pretty much little
just a bunch of link rots but they are minimal
--> k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined #fedora-ambassadors
<azneita> that's only for us though -- don't know about the other guys
we sort of liked fedoracommunity though :D
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
2:15 p.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:58:58AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
> I'm going to try to chime in from a Marketing standpoint as best I can,
> and am Ccing the Marketing list in the hopes that Those Who Know More
> Than I can speak about branding here.
>
> To summarize the conversation to date, both to catch up newcomers tothe
> conversation and to try and form a better understanding of this for
> myself: we have a naming collision problem. (The thread is at
>
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-September/msg00...
,
> please correct me if I've missed/mis-stated anything.)
>
> The term "Fedora Community" currently refers to three things.
>
> 1. The community of contributors working on the Fedora Project (in other
> words, "us").
>
> 2. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/, a site that helps keep
> track of who is packaging what, and what state those packages are in.
>
> 3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few (only 2 so
> far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
> http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
> http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was
> supposed to be a directory for all such homepages.
>
> Needless, to say, this is confusing, particularly in the case of the two
> websites. What should we do? Should one or both of the websites be
> renamed/rebranded? If so, which one(s), and what to? How can we adjust?
>
> Some solutions proposed on the list so far:
>
>>>> One way we could solve this would be to simply include the page
>>>> listing at the Fedora Community portal site somewhere, as static
>>>> content. Ugh.
>
>>>> Renaming fedoracommunity.org is very ugly because people have been
>>>> accumulating subdomains there for months. Plus, the domain name was
>>>> blessed by Legal last year (when we were still talking about
>>>> "MyFedora") because the domain name helps make it clear that
we don't
>>>> own the site, and aren't responsible for content.
>
>>> So it seems the only choice is to rename Fedora Community. I have no
idea
>>> what it could be renamed to. Right now it's focused on package
maintainers
>>> but we're hoping to expand it out more...
>
>> developers.fedoracommunity.org ?
>> makeit.fedoracommunity.org?
>> I think it would be a branch from the overall fedora community.
>
> My thoughts at this point are mainly questions - some of which have
> partially been answered in the discussion above.
>
> 0. What is the purpose of each website being discussed? (#2,
> admin.fedoraproject.org/community and #3, fedoracommunity.org)
#2 - the portal project using the Moksha framework for roughtly
real-time, interactive collaboration between contributors; right now
it serves mainly packagers but the plan is to drastically increase
its coverage beyond that group
#3 - a domain used to provide subdomains for local communities at
which localized (translated) original content, forums, etc. are
provided and maintained outside the Fedora Project; offers both
appeal from the perspective of native language, and the ability to
discuss and provide solutions outside Fedora's mission and scope
> 1. For each of the websites being discussed, what were the historical
> reasons for choosing that name? (Pointers to wiki pages, list archives,
> or IRC logs would be great.)
[[Local_community_domains]] is probably the most important from the
perspective of the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3).
> 2. For each of the websites being discussed , what would the cost of
> renaming it be? (What effort would we have to go through, and how many
> people would be affected, in what way?)
If #3 is only being used by two groups thus far, and if neither has
spent considerable money producing literature or publicity, renaming
that one is probably the better option.
If we really want to know "how did this happen?", my feeling is that
I'm the person at fault here. I recall being not bowled over by the
naming of the portal project (#2) to Fedora Community, but I couldn't
think of why, and I simply failed to put 2 and 2 together with the
fedoracommunity.org domain name. I would say that there wasn't enough
interplay between the FAB list and Infrastructure, where #3 was
discussed and implemented, and Marketing/Moksha, where #2 was going
through that process. And putting those pieces together really is an
FPL responsibility. We have the Logistics list now to coordinate such
things, but didn't back in the winter when #3 was happening (and
probably #2 too).
Having said that, I'd propose that we get in touch with the groups
using the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3) to find out to what extent a
renaming would hamper their community efforts. I'd like to do that
with a Cc: of an appropriate list -- Marketing? Websites? Logistics?
Other?
I believe all of the other Filipino Fedora Ambassadors will agree on me on
this - we're agreeable to anything the Board deems fit for our local
community domain. This is basically just echoing what Engels posted to the
Board's list a while back [1].
[1]
http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-advisory-board/256150-community-domai...
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
--
Heherson Pagcaliwagan
http://project.azneita.org
+63.908.885.5428
2:34 p.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Heherson Pagcaliwagan
<herson(a)azneita.org>wrote:
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com>wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:58:58AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote:
> > I'm going to try to chime in from a Marketing standpoint as best I can,
> > and am Ccing the Marketing list in the hopes that Those Who Know More
> > Than I can speak about branding here.
> >
> > To summarize the conversation to date, both to catch up newcomers tothe
> > conversation and to try and form a better understanding of this for
> > myself: we have a naming collision problem. (The thread is at
> >
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2009-September/msg00...
> ,
> > please correct me if I've missed/mis-stated anything.)
> >
> > The term "Fedora Community" currently refers to three things.
> >
> > 1. The community of contributors working on the Fedora Project (in other
> > words, "us").
> >
> > 2. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/, a site that helps keep
> > track of who is packaging what, and what state those packages are in.
> >
> > 3. http://fedoracommunity.org, the top-level domain for a few (only 2
> so
> > far, it sounds like) local group homepages (such as
> > http://ph.fedoracommunity.org/ for the Philippines).
> > http://fedoracommunity.org itself is not up and running, but was
> > supposed to be a directory for all such homepages.
> >
> > Needless, to say, this is confusing, particularly in the case of the two
> > websites. What should we do? Should one or both of the websites be
> > renamed/rebranded? If so, which one(s), and what to? How can we adjust?
> >
>
Why don't we just add a list of *.fedoracommunity.org sites on the sidebar
of Fedora Community Portal which resides on fedoracommunity.org. The portal
already caters to our developers and blogging contributors, can't we do the
same for our local communities. Likewise, it will make the portal more like
a one-stop showcase of what Fedora have - fantastic developers, energetic
contributors and vibrant local communities. That's already Features,
Friends, Freedom, and First for you.
> Some solutions proposed on the list so far:
> >
> >>>> One way we could solve this would be to simply include the page
> >>>> listing at the Fedora Community portal site somewhere, as static
> >>>> content. Ugh.
> >
> >>>> Renaming fedoracommunity.org is very ugly because people have been
> >>>> accumulating subdomains there for months. Plus, the domain name
was
> >>>> blessed by Legal last year (when we were still talking about
> >>>> "MyFedora") because the domain name helps make it clear
that we don't
> >>>> own the site, and aren't responsible for content.
> >
> >>> So it seems the only choice is to rename Fedora Community. I have no
> idea
> >>> what it could be renamed to. Right now it's focused on package
> maintainers
> >>> but we're hoping to expand it out more...
> >
> >> developers.fedoracommunity.org ?
> >> makeit.fedoracommunity.org?
> >> I think it would be a branch from the overall fedora community.
> >
> > My thoughts at this point are mainly questions - some of which have
> > partially been answered in the discussion above.
> >
> > 0. What is the purpose of each website being discussed? (#2,
> > admin.fedoraproject.org/community and #3, fedoracommunity.org)
>
> #2 - the portal project using the Moksha framework for roughtly
> real-time, interactive collaboration between contributors; right now
> it serves mainly packagers but the plan is to drastically increase
> its coverage beyond that group
>
> #3 - a domain used to provide subdomains for local communities at
> which localized (translated) original content, forums, etc. are
> provided and maintained outside the Fedora Project; offers both
> appeal from the perspective of native language, and the ability to
> discuss and provide solutions outside Fedora's mission and scope
>
> > 1. For each of the websites being discussed, what were the historical
> > reasons for choosing that name? (Pointers to wiki pages, list archives,
> > or IRC logs would be great.)
>
> [[Local_community_domains]] is probably the most important from the
> perspective of the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3).
>
> > 2. For each of the websites being discussed , what would the cost of
> > renaming it be? (What effort would we have to go through, and how many
> > people would be affected, in what way?)
>
> If #3 is only being used by two groups thus far, and if neither has
> spent considerable money producing literature or publicity, renaming
> that one is probably the better option.
>
> If we really want to know "how did this happen?", my feeling is that
> I'm the person at fault here. I recall being not bowled over by the
> naming of the portal project (#2) to Fedora Community, but I couldn't
> think of why, and I simply failed to put 2 and 2 together with the
> fedoracommunity.org domain name. I would say that there wasn't enough
> interplay between the FAB list and Infrastructure, where #3 was
> discussed and implemented, and Marketing/Moksha, where #2 was going
> through that process. And putting those pieces together really is an
> FPL responsibility. We have the Logistics list now to coordinate such
> things, but didn't back in the winter when #3 was happening (and
> probably #2 too).
>
> Having said that, I'd propose that we get in touch with the groups
> using the fedoracommunity.org domain (#3) to find out to what extent a
> renaming would hamper their community efforts. I'd like to do that
> with a Cc: of an appropriate list -- Marketing? Websites? Logistics?
> Other?
>
I believe all of the other Filipino Fedora Ambassadors will agree on me on
this - we're agreeable to anything the Board deems fit for our local
community domain. This is basically just echoing what Engels posted to the
Board's list a while back [1].
[1]
http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-advisory-board/256150-community-domai...
>
> --
> Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
> gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
> http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
> irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
>
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
>
--
Heherson Pagcaliwagan
http://project.azneita.org
+63.908.885.5428
--
Heherson Pagcaliwagan
http://project.azneita.org
+63.908.885.5428
4:33 p.m.
New subject: Fedoracommunity.org index page
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 03:34:26AM +0800, Heherson Pagcaliwagan wrote:
Why don't we just add a list of *.[8]fedoracommunity.org sites
on
the sidebar of Fedora Community Portal which resides on
[9]fedoracommunity.org. The portal already caters to our
developers and blogging contributors, can't we do the same for
our local communities. Likewise, it will make the portal more
like a one-stop showcase of what Fedora have - fantastic
developers, energetic contributors and vibrant local
communities. That's already Features, Friends, Freedom, and First
for you.
I think the idea of our main collaboration portal linking up various
resources is a great thing. The main problem is that it's going to be
confusing to people who don't know anything about either
fedoracommunity.org or the portal site. They'll have a lot of trouble
distinguishing between the two when they visit either one as a result
of hearing about it.
We are definitely not trying to keep our Friends separated from each
other! :-) I think everyone wants to find a way to ensure that people
visiting any sites, whether they're on our infrastructure or not, are
not confused about what to expect.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
5342
days inactive
5342
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Heherson Pagcaliwagan -
Mathieu Bridon -
Max Spevack -
Mel Chua -
Paul W. Frields