Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting: * the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media, * having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products, * having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server, * creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops, many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jiri Eischmann" eischmann@redhat.com To: marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:41:02 PM Subject: F21 media
<snipped>
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Supported install media for Server product has been discussed a lot in Server team and we decided to support two types of installation media: Network and Local [1].
Kind regards, Tuan
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification#Supported_Arch...
Are we looking at different art work for each product or just different wording on each of the dvd's?
- Chris Roberts
----- Original Message ----- From: "Truong Anh. Tuan" tuanta@iwayvietnam.com To: "Fedora Marketing team" marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 9:43:31 PM Subject: Re: F21 media
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jiri Eischmann" eischmann@redhat.com To: marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 6:41:02 PM Subject: F21 media
<snipped>
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Supported install media for Server product has been discussed a lot in Server team and we decided to support two types of installation media: Network and Local [1].
Kind regards, Tuan
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Server/Technical_Specification#Supported_Arch...
On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand out at events?
Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs people to the downloads/cloud images.
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
Agreed there.
Best,
jzb
<Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments <where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient <bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle <creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
<I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user <groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs <people to the downloads/cloud images.
+1 to this
if we need some new artwork for the top of the dvd or the case and we can create a ticket with design and get something worked out.
- Chris Roberts
On 09/04/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Roberts wrote:
<Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments <where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient <bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle <creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
<I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user <groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs <people to the downloads/cloud images.
Heya,
I respect all views here, but I am afraid we should not be limiting our users to workstation only by doing this. Any new comer or some one who have limitations to download images should not by default directing to workstation only.
This is first time we are going with fedora.next and with product wise concept, so is it not good to have them all available as media for users to try out without going through the hassle of downloading and creating CDs?
Just a thought.
Thanks, Amita
+1 to this
if we need some new artwork for the top of the dvd or the case and we can create a ticket with design and get something worked out.
- Chris Roberts
On Thursday, September 4, 2014, Amita Sharma amsharma@redhat.com wrote:
On 09/04/2014 07:52 PM, Chris Roberts wrote:
<Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments <where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient <bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle <creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
<I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user <groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs <people to the downloads/cloud images.
Heya,
I respect all views here, but I am afraid we should not be limiting our users to workstation only by doing this. Any new comer or some one who have limitations to download images should not by default directing to workstation only.
This is first time we are going with fedora.next and with product wise concept, so is it not good to have them all available as media for users to try out without going through the hassle of downloading and creating CDs?
Just a thought.
Thanks, Amita
+1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to any flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 10:09:01PM +0530, beta tester wrote:
+1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to any flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
This isn't a question of limiting people.
It's a question of what we spend our limited money on to actively promote, as well as our limited time and availability, and the limited time in which we can get a given audience to listen to us.
That doesn't mean that we _have_ to focus that promotion, but the basic strategy here is that if we do, we can get _really good returns_ in a particular area, rather than poor returns across the board. Then, in the long run, that can spill out to actual broader success across the board.
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 01:14:46PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 10:09:01PM +0530, beta tester wrote:
+1 to this i fully agree with amita we should not limit people to any flavour otherwise we are not supporting the spread of fedora.
This isn't a question of limiting people.
Also, calling this a "limit" is illogical. If you are planning to run a server, we can safely assume you are connected to a network, and that you're capable of downloading an image. So you don't need to be handed a physical disc in order to make one.
It's a question of what we spend our limited money on to actively promote, as well as our limited time and availability, and the limited time in which we can get a given audience to listen to us.
That doesn't mean that we _have_ to focus that promotion, but the basic strategy here is that if we do, we can get _really good returns_ in a particular area, rather than poor returns across the board. Then, in the long run, that can spill out to actual broader success across the board.
+1.
Joe Brockmeier píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 08:26 -0500:
On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand out at events?
Yes.
Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server working group to ask if this distribution channel is important to them. We should also note that the decision would have its price. Producing 1000 Server DVDs only for EMEA would cost around $800.
I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about branding, it doesn't carry any information.
Jiri
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the workstation media?
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to the audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting, and maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year, most people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a Fedora server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB stick or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to make and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD available for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw. Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably satisfy.
groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about branding, it doesn't carry any information.
I think this is great too. I'd like to see these use traceable URLs, so we can get a measurable sense of how much people are actually using them vs. just picking them up and recycling them when they get home from the event. Ideally, this would tie back to the individual event, even. (Maybe QR code + link stickers, so the whole thing doesn't need reprinted?) I know this is additional expense, but I also think it's worth it.
Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the workstation media?
This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to the audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting, and maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year, most people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a Fedora server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB stick or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to make and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD available for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw. Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably satisfy.
Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective: In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics) we pay ~ $1750. If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total price will be: $4000.
That's a significant difference considering it's just one region. Yes, it'd be great to have different media for different audiences, but is it really worth the money? Are DVDs as installation media still so important? It's a dying technology. Yes, we should continue produce them for the time being because it's the only economically viable physical media, but I think we should keep the selection rather simple and don't invest too much into it. I don't think it's a big deal if something is not shipped on DVDs. It's just one of distribution channels, one that is less and less important.
Jiri
On 4 September 2014 11:14, Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com wrote:
Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a
DVD
recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the workstation media?
This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to the audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so interesting,
and
maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year,
most
people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a
Fedora
server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question is whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got it already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB
stick
or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to
make
and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD
available
for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw. Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would probably satisfy.
Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective: In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics) we pay ~ $1750. If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total price will be: $4000.
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
While DVD's are useful in some regions, I agree that the amount of money to burn throw away media might be better spent on things people can use multiple times in different ways.
+1 for USB. That's actually a bit more useful these days. I'm curious; when do we actually distribute install media, other than at events?
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smooge@gmail.com wrote:
On 4 September 2014 11:14, Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com wrote:
Matthew Miller píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 12:38 -0400:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:33:48PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a
DVD
recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server
Random thought: What if we ship the server as a preconfigured VM on the workstation media?
This sounds like an interesting idea to me. I have no idea how it would behave and if it'd be usable running Fedora live, but it's worth trying.
In general, I think it would be nice to target our media giveaways to
the
audience.
If we're reaching out to developers (DevOps Days, Velocity), Workstation media makes sense. (With or without the server VM idea).
For LISA, the developer desktop target isn't going to be so
interesting, and
maybe server media would indeed be valuable. Although from last year,
most
people taking the media were looking to try it on their laptops, or just collecting souvenirs -- people who were really interested in doing a
Fedora
server deploy would mostly do a network install. (I guess the question
is
whether that "souvenir" install media would actually sometimes convince people to try it where they wouldn't otherwise, because, hey, I've got
it
already with no need hunt for the download link or to find a blank USB
stick
or DVD.)
If we feel like we have the budget for it, *and* people are willing to
make
and test it, I don't think it hurts to have the multi-desktop DVD
available
for distribution where we feel like the targetted message won't resonate anyway. I guess I'm mostly thinking of LUGs where the userbase is mostly interested in tinkering and trying multiple desktops is more of a draw. Actually, LISA might be an example of that too -- although "you can net-install from this and pick the desktop of your choice" would
probably
satisfy.
Ok, let me put the ideas in the cost perspective: In EMEA if we order 5000 DVDs of one kind (same content, same graphics) we pay ~ $1750. If we order 1000 DVDs then the price is ~$800.
So if we for example order 5 different DVDs, 1000 pieces each, the total price will be: $4000.
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
While DVD's are useful in some regions, I agree that the amount of money to burn throw away media might be better spent on things people can use multiple times in different ways.
-- Stephen J Smoogen.
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your* flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
Jaroslav
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your* flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
I recall such a device being present at LinuxTag about 5 years ago. However, I also seem to recall it, and the booth, being overwhelmed by people wanting to take advantage of it. In some sense that's a good problem to have (would we?); in another larger sense, lots of dissatisfied people.
On 09/04/2014 02:18 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
I recall such a device being present at LinuxTag about 5 years ago. However, I also seem to recall it, and the booth, being overwhelmed by people wanting to take advantage of it. In some sense that's a good problem to have (would we?); in another larger sense, lots of dissatisfied people.
I recall having to staff booths with such a device. Great idea in concept, less so in practice. Does not handle the rush between talks/during breaks well at all. Also, it tends to distract from *actual conversations* and winds up being more interesting in and of itself.
To promote SUSE Studio, that was fine - that was the idea, to promote that. We're not trying to promote our ability to build images on the fly, but trying to get Fedora in as many hands as possible _and_ help new users be successful.
Best,
jzb
On 09/04/2014 01:47 PM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
So - depending on the size of the box, etc. You may spend more $$ on shipping and managing the box to events than you would just drop-shipping enough media to give away at the event.
Also - there's a bit of coding involved, and time to copy to media - so harder to handle rushes to the booth, and a box of DVDs doesn't crash or need its interface explained to new users. ;-)
I like Matthew's idea about having physical workstation media that has the server VM on it. But I don't think it's worth the extra cost to produce physical media for the server when that audience should have the bandwidth + expertise to create their own media. It's not 100% perfect for all audiences - but it's likely the most bang for our buck across all audiences and geos.
Best,
jzb
Jaroslav Reznik píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 14:47 -0400:
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your* flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
We discussed this idea and turned it down in the end. The reasons were:
* we tried it in EMEA and people weren't really excited about it, they didn't want to wait several minutes to get it loaded or they didn't have their own flash drives, * we would lose branding, * such machines are pretty expensive, * LATAM and APAC regions would have problems to get such a machines past customs and shipping would also be expensive.
Jiri
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your* flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
Jaroslav
I had a similar idea. Why not have a box+wifi access point with local copies for download? Should be pretty quick over local lan for the downloads, plus people could do that during talks, not just in between talks. Also, regarding the "challenge" to get a USB key or some other swag, the challenge could reside on the box with the images (I'm envisioning something like a Fedora python challenge [0]).
Talking to MarkDude in #fedora-mktg, he thought there could easily be a FAD to develop something like this. It would by no means replace physical media, but might be able to extend the visibility of the Fedora booth pretty well.
I have more thoughts on how it could be implemented and leveraged, but will hold off until the brain trust has some time to decide if it's worth going after.
[0] http://www.pythonchallenge.com/
-- // Mike -- Fedora QA freenode: roshi http://roshi.fedorapeople.org
Hi,
discussions for USB sticks, Live USB Creator that was the thing once called, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LiveUsbCreator or Wifi-Special-Mirror are very far from the problem
But now back to ideas for the visibility.
How would it be not to "brand" it as desktop from the outside. What I mean is normally we do this cheap envelopes. How would be we do this time so called Digisleeve or DigiFile (I mean here the format, we should not choose the brand). Problem with the other one is, if you take a look:
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/d5/Fedora-20-livemedia-mate_compiz-64....
on the backside is no space left at all through the necessary legal text. On front the edge with architecture as the text what media it is not necessary from a legal point, we do it more of historical reasons. With an Digisleeve or Digifile we had one page more in the inside, where we can place server and cloud text for marketing reason. It will be little bit more expensive but think lesser as producing server media
another option would be to paper wrap them, like https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/7/70/Fedora-20-foldinginstructions.pdf that can be done from vendors also, we could keep, it except legal text also very neutral and would have the whole inside for information about fedora.next and the other products.
There would be several such solutions.
So there would be other options as producing server media for getting attention that there is a change and we have now server, cloud and workstation
Note that will not touch the other sleeves and media artwork Design Team does: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/MediaArt/F20 the opposite, there will be sleeves for server and maybe also cloud. But hopefully somebody tells us how all the media will be called in the future
br gnokii
2014-09-04 23:51 GMT+02:00 Mike Ruckman roshi@fedoraproject.org:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:47:30PM -0400, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)?
And
how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing
or
helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we
clearly very
excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm
interested in
your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to
bigger,
more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are
not
taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
Maybe we can create machine like OpenSUSE studio - stand, you put *your* flash drive to the machine, select what product you want to upload to you flash drive, while uploading, show some nice presentation about Fedora etc. And it can also burn media :).
It could be cheap now to create such device, just some manual work would be required to create nice box.
Jaroslav
I had a similar idea. Why not have a box+wifi access point with local copies for download? Should be pretty quick over local lan for the downloads, plus people could do that during talks, not just in between talks. Also, regarding the "challenge" to get a USB key or some other swag, the challenge could reside on the box with the images (I'm envisioning something like a Fedora python challenge [0]).
Talking to MarkDude in #fedora-mktg, he thought there could easily be a FAD to develop something like this. It would by no means replace physical media, but might be able to extend the visibility of the Fedora booth pretty well.
I have more thoughts on how it could be implemented and leveraged, but will hold off until the brain trust has some time to decide if it's worth going after.
[0] http://www.pythonchallenge.com/
-- // Mike -- Fedora QA freenode: roshi http://roshi.fedorapeople.org -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Over the past years, this conversation regularly comes up. It's a good time to discuss it again. I think either way, people are going to reformat them, it's what I do when I get media from others. But more importantly, two things come to mind.
First, branding is important. If we brand the usb with Fedora on it and our url or something (and not on the crappy usbs we use right now) that won't come off others will probably see it. Putting Fedora into people's minds is a good thing.
Second, if we can put live media onto it, it's an easy win. Like I said, the person is likely to reformat it, but if they are presented with the media as a drawing or by learning about the four principles, it's an overall win. Maybe they'll join Fedora, maybe they won't, but at least they learned a little about our project and might share it with someone else.
While writing this, I was thinking of another benefit of using usb sticks. At conferences and conventions it seems that there's a lot of 'challenges' being put forth. We could reward those who want to take the challenge with a usb stick, and the winner with something a bit nicer (t-shirt or hat or something more, possibly a nicer electronic gadget).
Thoughts?
Clint
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:20:21AM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
At some non-Fedora-focussed conferences I've been at, people we clearly very excited about the USB stick because OOOH FREE USB STICK. I'm interested in your "earn by helping" idea -- how would that work? If we went to bigger, more expensive USB media, it *would* be nice to make sure people are not taking them just to reformat without caring about Fedora at all.
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader -- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Stephen John Smoogen píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 11:20 -0600: <snip>
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
Red Hat Czech recently ordered business-card-like 8GB usb flash drives in quantity of 800 and one was for 102 CZK (~$5). You can probably get a bit cheaper ones, but we want some branding, so the cheapest ones with no place to print our logo won't be a good solution. Moreover I don't think their price would be below $4. So for $1750, you can produce 350 flash sticks instead of 5000 DVDs (their unit price is $.35). The price difference is still huge and it's not getting smaller. I've been checking prices for the last two years and prices of suitable flash drives haven't changed much, it's still about $5, just their capacity goes up.
Jiri
On 4 September 2014 13:29, Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com wrote:
Stephen John Smoogen píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 11:20 -0600:
<snip>
How many USB 8 gb sticks could we order with that money (the 1750?)? And how instead of giving it away we went to a 'earn the fob by sharing or helping someone else' system?
Red Hat Czech recently ordered business-card-like 8GB usb flash drives in quantity of 800 and one was for 102 CZK (~$5). You can probably get a bit cheaper ones, but we want some branding, so the cheapest ones with no place to print our logo won't be a good solution. Moreover I don't think their price would be below $4.
So for $1750, you can produce 350 flash sticks instead of 5000 DVDs
(their unit price is $.35). The price difference is still huge and it's not getting smaller. I've been checking prices for the last two years and prices of suitable flash drives haven't changed much, it's still about $5, just their capacity goes up.
Yeah. The question is what will people value more. A looong time ago, I saw that when we had tons of giveaways, they ended up in the trash on the way out.. but when we had a limited number of them and people had to 'earn' them somehow (nothing silly just help someone answer a question on Linux) there was a lot less give-away trash at the exits. That is completely anecdotal so I don't know how true it is.. but I was just wondering if it might be a better bang.
----- Original Message -----
Joe Brockmeier píše v Čt 04. 09. 2014 v 08:26 -0500:
On 09/03/2014 06:41 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Thanks. I'm assuming we're actually talking about physical media to hand out at events?
Yes.
Do we really need server media? I'd expect that in most environments where someone is using the server product they 1) have sufficient bandwidth to download the image, and 2) have the expertise to handle creating their own USB or CD/DVD.
That's a question. I wrote off physical media for the cloud product right away, but I'm not sure about the server. We didn't reach a consensus in FAmSCo. Some say they have installed server OSes from a DVD recently. That's why we asked Christoph to reach out to the server working group to ask if this distribution channel is important to them. We should also note that the decision would have its price. Producing 1000 Server DVDs only for EMEA would cost around $800.
I'd keep it simple and produce the Workstation image for events/user groups, and maybe a "getting started" card for server/cloud that directs people to the downloads/cloud images.
Getting started cards is a great idea. Generally, I'd love to see more fliers given away at events because right now all our swag is just about branding, it doesn't carry any information.
To be honest - I think it's worth spending money on providing information to our (potential) users than paying money to provide DVD for SWAG collectors. I know some people still rely on DVD and there are good use cases for DVDs but I'm not sure we really have to spend so much money on it or maybe produce less media and give it away on request not to everyone (getting started card with QR code would be for it).
Jaroslav
Jiri
-- marketing mailing list marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again. The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the matter forward. So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably. We may also consider some less power hungry option for the regions of APAC and LATAM (probably Xfce Spin). But it only will be an alternative, Fedora Workstation DVD is what we want to distribute globally. The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best what they need.
Other kinds of media might be also considered and used in the end, but it doesn't stop the DVD production because DVDs will remain our primary media for this release.
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was necessary to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not much time left.
Jiri
On 10/01/2014 10:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was necessary to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not much time left.
This sounds reasonable to me - (including pushing to a concrete solution). +1
Thanks, Jiri!
Best,
jzb
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 05:01:06PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best what they need.
I think this is a good idea, particularly because the Ambassadors (both globally and regionally) should be best-placed in the project to judge media demand.
We should make sure to plan some budget for this (both in the remainder of this year and for next FY), and I think that we should to expand this even beyond per-region to considering per-event requests. At most events, we want to promote our unified Fedora message as designed by the marketing team, but there are other situations as well:
a. "grassroots' events like LUG meetings, where the ambassador on the ground may be involved primarily because of their work on or interest in KDE or some other spin. (And this isn't just desktops; I'd support some funding for making media for the robotics spin for a robotics meetup, if someone wanted to do that — Fedora _is_ the OS of choice for the world's best RoboCup team!)
b. Linux fests and events where we know that the audience's primary interest is going to be how the desktop they care about works on Fedora, not our Fedora Workstation developer target.
Matthew Miller píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 11:53 -0400:
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 05:01:06PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best what they need.
I think this is a good idea, particularly because the Ambassadors (both globally and regionally) should be best-placed in the project to judge media demand.
We should make sure to plan some budget for this (both in the remainder of this year and for next FY), and I think that we should to expand this even beyond per-region to considering per-event requests. At most events, we want to promote our unified Fedora message as designed by the marketing team, but there are other situations as well:
a. "grassroots' events like LUG meetings, where the ambassador on the ground may be involved primarily because of their work on or interest in KDE or some other spin. (And this isn't just desktops; I'd support some funding for making media for the robotics spin for a robotics meetup, if someone wanted to do that — Fedora _is_ the OS of choice for the world's best RoboCup team!)
b. Linux fests and events where we know that the audience's primary interest is going to be how the desktop they care about works on Fedora, not our Fedora Workstation developer target.
The standard media production should be planned in regional budgets. At least we have money for it in the EMEA budget.
We don't have money for special media for particular events. That's something we may be able to cover from reserves (if we have any :) ). There is also a practical problem with production. The vendor we're using doesn't even produce pressed DVDs in quantities under 1000 and burnt DVDs are pretty expensive (up to $1.5 per DVD). DVD production in small quantities is expensive.
Jiri
On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 06:07:05PM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
We don't have money for special media for particular events. That's something we may be able to cover from reserves (if we have any :) ).
As I understand it, there's at least some.
There is also a practical problem with production. The vendor we're using doesn't even produce pressed DVDs in quantities under 1000 and burnt DVDs are pretty expensive (up to $1.5 per DVD). DVD production in small quantities is expensive.
Optical drives are an increasing rarity in new computers. They'll be going the way of the floppy soon enough. I think that for next year, we should deemphasize DVDs overall, instead focusing on fliers and promotional material. I know this is _also_ an extra cost, but I think it would be worth printing these on demand per-event with event-specific URLs, so we can better judge return rates.
If we move to USB sticks (rather than just ditching media altogether), I think we should follow the suggestions from earlier threads and raise the bar for getting one — perhaps even to the point of asking people to sign up for a Fedora account (and promising no spam, of course) if they don't have one, and visiting Badges to get the badge for that conference.
On 10/01/2014 11:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again. The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the matter forward. So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably.
With my Fedora Design hat on here, does this mean that the sleeve and disc designs could use the "Fedora Workstation" branding?
cheers, ryanlerch
Ryan Lerch píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 12:41 -0400:
On 10/01/2014 11:01 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again. The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the matter forward. So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably.
With my Fedora Design hat on here, does this mean that the sleeve and disc designs could use the "Fedora Workstation" branding?
Yes, I suppose they should use the FW branding since the FW product will be the only content of the DVD.
Jiri
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 01. 10. 2014 v 17:01 +0200:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 03. 09. 2014 v 13:41 +0200:
Hi, yesterday in FAmSCo, we started a discussion what media we should produce for F21. We have been producing Multidesktop Live DVD for many releases, but with the Fedora.Next changes we need to revisit it. In FAmSCo, we've pretty much agreed that Multidesktop Live DVD is not very aligned with the Fedora.Next initiative where we want to emphasize the official products and those products should be delivered as clear offerings all the way to the users. Merging them with other spins means that the clear product offering is lost before it reaches the users. Although Multidesktop Live DVD is economically the best solution, it is not from the marketing perspective and doesn't deliver the message of Fedora.Next products.
Suggestions that have come up at the meeting:
- the Cloud product doesn't really need a DVD media,
- having one DVD with Workstation and Server Products,
- having separate DVDs with Workstation and Server,
- creating additional DVD with other flavors of Fedora (other desktops,
many other specialized spins?) if there is enough interest and demand.
Christoph Wickert is going to bring it up on the workstation and server group mailing lists and I'd like to start the discussion here because this is very related to marketing. Opinions? :)
Jiri
P.S. we also discussed replacing DVDs with usb flash drives. As much as we'd love to offer flash drives instead of DVDs it's still not a viable option because flash drives are still 10x more expensive than DVDs. Not much has changed there in the last two years :/
We discussed the topic in FAmSCo again. The topic was discussed on several mailing lists and we've only registered strong demand for DVDs of Fedora Workstation. There have been some suggestions to add Fedora Server to FW as a virtual machine, but no one has volunteered to execute this idea and we really need to move the matter forward. So the plan is to produce Fedora Workstation DVDs, 64bit only because we don't know of 32-bit computers which could run FW reasonably. We may also consider some less power hungry option for the regions of APAC and LATAM (probably Xfce Spin). But it only will be an alternative, Fedora Workstation DVD is what we want to distribute globally. The quantities and whether the alternative DVD will be produced is at the discretion of the regions because the production is paid from their budgets and they're the closest to users, so they should know the best what they need.
Other kinds of media might be also considered and used in the end, but it doesn't stop the DVD production because DVDs will remain our primary media for this release.
The plan is of course a subject of change. I just felt it was necessary to push it forward and propose a concrete solution because there is not much time left.
Jiri
Hi, I finally have quotes for EMEA: dual-layer DVD (DVD9): unit price: $.78 (quantity: 1000), $.55 (2000), $.44 (3000), $.36 (5000)
single-layer DVD (DVD5): unit price: $.70 (1000), $.50 (2000), $.41 (3000), $.34 (5000)
If we want CD Digipack (booklet cover instead of a simple sleeve cover) we will have to pay an additional cost: $.50 (1000), $.35 (2000), $.27 (3000), $.22 (5000)
I also asked about the mini DVDs (8cm) which are much lighter to ship. They said they don't produce them any more because they don't work with the new Macbook-like DVD drives which is a very valid argument against them.
USB flash disk (form factor: credit card, CMYK print, 4GB, quantity: 500): unit price: $4.36
The price already includes preloading data on the drives. We've explored the market quite extensively and you cannot buy flash drives much cheaper. We may get down to $3-4, but it'd be really shitty drives with no print on them and no preloaded data.
Paper web key (21x10cm): unit prices: $1.97 (500), $1.55 (1000) Plastic web key (see the attached picture): unit prices: $1.54 (500), $1.34 (1000)
The price of web keys is IMHO quite high considering that they can't contain almost no data. They're usually used to open a browser with a certain website, so I guess autorun is used which is more or less a Windows-only thing.
The cheapest alternative to DVDs would be fliers with a download link/QR code and instructions how to download Fedora, create a bootable usb, and install it.
I've already created a ticket in the EMEA trac, so that we can discuss and vote about the production for this region:
https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/422
Jiri
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