Regarding XFCE wiki page

[Brock Hudson]

Regarding this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xfce, I noticed that
it gives only two options, installing Xfce via yum and using the spin
cd. Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome. Could I
possibly edit this?

[Adam Miller]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12:34PM -0500, Brock Hudson wrote:
>  Regarding this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xfce, I noticed
> that
>  it gives only two options, installing Xfce via yum and using the spin
>  cd. Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome. Could I
>  possibly edit this?  
I think that would be a great idea! I'd just be sure to mention that an
internet connection is required, but other than that I think it would be
perfect. Adding more options for users to aquire Xfce is certainly a
great thing.

I've never personally done this method (I always just install with the
Xfce Spin Live image) so I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo will
pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge config dialog
in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case or not? ... just
random curiousity. :)

Happy wiki hacking!

-AdamM

[Brock Hudson]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:19:35 -0600
Adam Miller <maxamillion(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12:34PM -0500, Brock Hudson wrote:
>  > Regarding this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xfce, I noticed
>  > that it gives only two options, installing Xfce via yum and using
>  > the spin cd. Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by
>  > default it doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository
>  > before installation allows you install more than just KDE and
>  > Gnome. Could I possibly edit this? 
>  
>  I think that would be a great idea! I'd just be sure to mention that
>  an internet connection is required, but other than that I think it
>  would be perfect. Adding more options for users to aquire Xfce is
>  certainly a great thing.
>  
>  I've never personally done this method (I always just install with the
>  Xfce Spin Live image) so I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo
>  will pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge
>  config dialog in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case
>  or not? ... just random curiousity. :)
>  
>  Happy wiki hacking!
>  
>  -AdamM
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
Thanks, I always do the DVD because it gives a very clean XFCE install
and for some reason I never Have CD's only DVD's lying around : ) But I
thought it was just a little misleading to a newbie who just spent
an hour or so downloading the DVD only to find out he can't install
only XFCE from it.

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 12:19 -0600 schrieb Adam Miller:
>  On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12:34PM -0500, Brock Hudson wrote:
>  > Regarding this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xfce, I noticed that
>  > it gives only two options, installing Xfce via yum and using the spin
>  > cd. Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome. Could I
>  > possibly edit this?  
Sure, go ahead! You might want to read
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing before you start (if you
haven't worked with a mediawiki before).

>  I think that would be a great idea! I'd just be sure to mention
> that an
>  internet connection is required, but other than that I think it would be
>  perfect. Adding more options for users to aquire Xfce is certainly a
>  great thing.
>  
>  I've never personally done this method (I always just install with the
>  Xfce Spin Live image) so I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo will
>  pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge config dialog
>  in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case or not? ... just
>  random curiousity. :) 
It works quite well in the meantime: The repo is preconfigured, it just
needs to be activated and then the Xfce group is available. It even
works over wireless, thanks to NetworkManager.

Regards,
Christoph

[Brock Hudson]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:19:35 -0600
Adam Miller <maxamillion(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12:34PM -0500, Brock Hudson wrote:
>  > Regarding this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Xfce, I noticed
>  > that it gives only two options, installing Xfce via yum and using
>  > the spin cd. Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by
>  > default it doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository
>  > before installation allows you install more than just KDE and
>  > Gnome. Could I possibly edit this? 
>  
>  I think that would be a great idea! I'd just be sure to mention that
>  an internet connection is required, but other than that I think it
>  would be perfect. Adding more options for users to aquire Xfce is
>  certainly a great thing.
>  
>  I've never personally done this method (I always just install with the
>  Xfce Spin Live image) so I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo
>  will pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge
>  config dialog in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case
>  or not? ... just random curiousity. :)
>  
>  Happy wiki hacking!
>  
>  -AdamM
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
Sorry AdamM I forgot to respond to your other question in that last
email. 

"I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo will
pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge config dialog
in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case or not? ... just
random curiousity. :)"

It does pull in other window managers including LXDE. I use Xfce and
fluxbox on my installs but I always look at the other options
listed : ) It also pulls in additional software (of course) i.e. extra
panel plugins for xfce are available. There is much more software
available prior to install using the DVD method.

[Adam Miller]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 01:30:26PM -0500, Brock Hudson wrote:
<SNIP>
>  Sorry AdamM I forgot to respond to your other question in that last
>  email. 
>  
>  "I'm not familiar if adding the extra repo will
>  pull in the additional groups and list them in the pacakge config dialog
>  in Anaconda. Do you happen to know if that's the case or not? ... just
>  random curiousity. :)"
>  
>  It does pull in other window managers including LXDE. I use Xfce and
>  fluxbox on my installs but I always look at the other options
>  listed : ) It also pulls in additional software (of course) i.e. extra
>  panel plugins for xfce are available. There is much more software
>  available prior to install using the DVD method.  
Awesome! Good to know :)

-AdamM

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome. 
BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to come
up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to convince
release engineering.

Suggestions:
      * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
      * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
      * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
      * evolution-help (16,7 MB)

To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for eclipse
and it's plugins but only for developing *new* eclipse-plugins. If we
remove scribus we will have to mess the design-team and for the help
packages with the GNOME desktop folks. ;)

Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce and
LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Adam Miller]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 08:34:23PM +0100, Christoph Wickert wrote:
>  Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome.
>  
>  BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to come
>  up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to convince
>  release engineering.
>  
>  Suggestions:
>        * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>        * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>        * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>        * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  
>  To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for eclipse
>  and it's plugins but only for developing *new* eclipse-plugins. If we
>  remove scribus we will have to mess the design-team and for the help
>  packages with the GNOME desktop folks. ;)
>  
>  Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce and
>  LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar. 
<SNIP>

That's awesome! I can't imagine the ability to develop new eclipse
plugins from a fresh DVD install without a yum command would add more
value than at minimum two more Desktop Environment choices off the
installation menu.

Hope that goes through! 

-AdamM

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome.
>  
>  BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to come
>  up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to
>  convince release engineering.
>  
>  Suggestions:
>        * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>        * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>        * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>        * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  
>  To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for eclipse
>  and it's plugins but only for developing *new* eclipse-plugins. If we
>  remove scribus we will have to mess the design-team and for the help
>  packages with the GNOME desktop folks. ;)
>  
>  Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce and
>  LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
I would like to see this included. I will still edit the wiki for now,
in case the release engineers don't have the same sentiment as we do.
Would screenshots be appropriate? Not the whole desktop but the windows
so there is a visual reference on how to add that one extra repository?

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 14:49 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome.
>  > 
>  > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to come
>  > up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to
>  > convince release engineering. 
[snipped]

>  I would like to see this included. I will still edit the wiki for
> now,
>  in case the release engineers don't have the same sentiment as we do. 
We'll see. Adding it to the wiki definitely makes sense.

>  Would screenshots be appropriate? Not the whole desktop but the
> windows
>  so there is a visual reference on how to add that one extra repository?  
If you can do screenshots, please do. IMHO this is not necessary, but as
a long time Fedora user and contributor I am not speaking for everybody.
I think new users will love some screenshots, but please make sure they
don't get too large, e.g. use virtualization with 640x400 or 800x600 px.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:58:11 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 14:49 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > > Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > > > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > > > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome.
>  > > 
>  > > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to
>  > > come up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order
>  > > to convince release engineering.
>  
>  [snipped]
>  
>  > I would like to see this included. I will still edit the wiki for
>  > now, in case the release engineers don't have the same sentiment as
>  > we do.
>  
>  We'll see. Adding it to the wiki definitely makes sense.
>  
>  > Would screenshots be appropriate? Not the whole desktop but the
>  > windows so there is a visual reference on how to add that one extra
>  > repository? 
>  
>  If you can do screenshots, please do. IMHO this is not necessary, but
>  as a long time Fedora user and contributor I am not speaking for
>  everybody. I think new users will love some screenshots, but please
>  make sure they don't get too large, e.g. use virtualization with
>  640x400 or 800x600 px.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 

>  If you can do screenshots, please do. IMHO this is not necessary,
> but
>  as a long time Fedora user and contributor I am not speaking for
>  everybody. I think new users will love some screenshots, but please
>  make sure they don't get too large, e.g. use virtualization with
>  640x400 or 800x600 px. 
Thanks, that is what I planed on doing. I agree with you that they
aren't really necessary but I've helped a lot of newbies out in forums
with them. For their sake I will include them.

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:58:11 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 14:49 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 13:12 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > > Would it be appropriate to include the DVD, I know by default it
>  > > > doesn't include Xfce but adding 1 additional repository before
>  > > > installation allows you install more than just KDE and Gnome.
>  > > 
>  > > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to
>  > > come up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order
>  > > to convince release engineering.
>  
>  [snipped]
>  
>  > I would like to see this included. I will still edit the wiki for
>  > now, in case the release engineers don't have the same sentiment as
>  > we do.
>  
>  We'll see. Adding it to the wiki definitely makes sense.
>  
>  > Would screenshots be appropriate? Not the whole desktop but the
>  > windows so there is a visual reference on how to add that one extra
>  > repository? 
>  
>  If you can do screenshots, please do. IMHO this is not necessary, but
>  as a long time Fedora user and contributor I am not speaking for
>  everybody. I think new users will love some screenshots, but please
>  make sure they don't get too large, e.g. use virtualization with
>  640x400 or 800x600 px.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
I've got a rough draft for including the DVD installation on the page
done. I am a university student as well so unfortunately I need to work
on some school work before returning to finish this tonight. No changes
to the page have been made yet.

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Dienstag, den 18.01.2011, 16:48 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:

>  I've got a rough draft for including the DVD installation on the
> page
>  done. I am a university student as well so unfortunately I need to work
>  on some school work before returning to finish this tonight. No changes
>  to the page have been made yet.  
Thanks for working on this, Brock!

If you want to share something with us without adding it to the wiki,
you can use your fedorapeople.org webspace. See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/fedorapeople.org for more
info.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to
> come
>  up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to
>  convince release engineering.
>  
>  Suggestions:
>        * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>        * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>        * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>        * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  
>  To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for eclipse
>  and it's plugins but only for developing *new* eclipse-plugins. If we
>  remove scribus we will have to mess the design-team and for the help
>  packages with the GNOME desktop folks. ;)
>  
>  Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce and
>  LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar. 
I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in f14, the
image was smaller than it had been in the past). They might have added
things in at the last minute tho. ;( 

I did mention the idea of adding Xfce/LXDE to the dvd in the last
rel-eng meeting and was not immediately shouted down, so thats good.
Would you like me to take these above suggestions to them?

kevin

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to come
>  > up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order to
>  > convince release engineering.
>  > 
>  > Suggestions:
>  >       * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>  >       * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>  >       * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>  >       * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  > 
>  > To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for eclipse
>  > and it's plugins but only for developing *new* eclipse-plugins. If we
>  > remove scribus we will have to mess the design-team and for the help
>  > packages with the GNOME desktop folks. ;)
>  > 
>  > Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce and
>  > LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar.
>  
>  I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in f14, the
>  image was smaller than it had been in the past). They might have added
>  things in at the last minute tho. ;(  
Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce and LXDE
on the DVD I was shot down and told...

>  I did mention the idea of adding Xfce/LXDE to the dvd in the last
>  rel-eng meeting and was not immediately shouted down, so thats good.
>  Would you like me to take these above suggestions to them? 
... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own DVD. I
did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but if someone is
willing to do this and we have something to show to rel-eng, our chances
are surely better.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to
>  > > come up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order
>  > > to convince release engineering.
>  > > 
>  > > Suggestions:
>  > >       * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>  > >       * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>  > >       * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>  > >       * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  > > 
>  > > To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for
>  > > eclipse and it's plugins but only for developing *new*
>  > > eclipse-plugins. If we remove scribus we will have to mess the
>  > > design-team and for the help packages with the GNOME desktop
>  > > folks. ;)
>  > > 
>  > > Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce
>  > > and LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar.
>  > 
>  > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in f14,
>  > the image was smaller than it had been in the past). They might
>  > have added things in at the last minute tho. ;( 
>  
>  Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce and
>  LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  
>  > I did mention the idea of adding Xfce/LXDE to the dvd in the last
>  > rel-eng meeting and was not immediately shouted down, so thats good.
>  > Would you like me to take these above suggestions to them?
>  
>  ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own DVD.
>  I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but if
>  someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  rel-eng, our chances are surely better.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
>  ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own
> DVD.
>  I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but if
>  someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  rel-eng, our chances are surely better. 
I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept behind
freeing room on the DVD to include these two?

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:51 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
>  Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > > 
>  > > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in f14,
>  > > the image was smaller than it had been in the past). They might
>  > > have added things in at the last minute tho. ;( 
>  > 
>  > Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce and
>  > LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told... 
[...]
>  > ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own
> DVD.
>  > I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but if
>  > someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  > rel-eng, our chances are surely better.
>  > 
>  I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
>  documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept behind
>  freeing room on the DVD to include these two?  
What we need is not end-user documentation for revisor (revisor is the
tool of choice for most users) but *official* documentation on pungi,
the tool used by Fedora release engineering to create the official
media.

The best document I could find is
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Composing_test_images
It should be sufficient to to a compose, but it requires privileges that
only members of rel-eng have.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:14:50 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:51 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > > > 
>  > > > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in
>  > > > f14, the image was smaller than it had been in the past). They
>  > > > might have added things in at the last minute tho. ;( 
>  > > 
>  > > Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce
>  > > and LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  [...]
>  > > ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own
>  > > DVD. I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but
>  > > if someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  > > rel-eng, our chances are surely better.
>  > > 
>  > I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
>  > documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept behind
>  > freeing room on the DVD to include these two? 
>  
>  What we need is not end-user documentation for revisor (revisor is the
>  tool of choice for most users) but *official* documentation on pungi,
>  the tool used by Fedora release engineering to create the official
>  media.
>  
>  The best document I could find is
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Composing_test_images
>  It should be sufficient to to a compose, but it requires privileges
>  that only members of rel-eng have.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
Understood. So what you're saying is that I would not be able to help
with this because it requires privileges I don't have? If that is the
case I would like to help with anything that I can.

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:14:50 +0100
>  Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:51 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
>  > > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > > 
>  > > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > > > > 
>  > > > > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in
>  > > > > f14, the image was smaller than it had been in the past). They
>  > > > > might have added things in at the last minute tho. ;( 
>  > > > 
>  > > > Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce
>  > > > and LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  > [...]
>  > > > ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own
>  > > > DVD. I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but
>  > > > if someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  > > > rel-eng, our chances are surely better.
>  > > > 
>  > > I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
>  > > documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept behind
>  > > freeing room on the DVD to include these two? 
>  > 
>  > What we need is not end-user documentation for revisor (revisor is the
>  > tool of choice for most users) but *official* documentation on pungi,
>  > the tool used by Fedora release engineering to create the official
>  > media.
>  > 
>  > The best document I could find is
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Composing_test_images
>  > It should be sufficient to to a compose, but it requires privileges
>  > that only members of rel-eng have.
>  
>  Understood. So what you're saying is that I would not be able to help
>  with this because it requires privileges I don't have?  
That none of us has. ;) Kevin perhaps?

>  If that is the case I would like to help with anything that I can. 
I think we should focus on user documentation. Having a real good doc in
time for F15 would be awesome.

Regards,
Christoph

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:01:53 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:14:50 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:51 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
>  > > > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > > > 
>  > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > > > > > 
>  > > > > > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least
>  > > > > > in f14, the image was smaller than it had been in the
>  > > > > > past). They might have added things in at the last minute
>  > > > > > tho. ;( 
>  > > > > 
>  > > > > Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have
>  > > > > Xfce and LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  > > [...]
>  > > > > ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my
>  > > > > own DVD. I did not have the time and the necessary
>  > > > > documentation, but if someone is willing to do this and we
>  > > > > have something to show to rel-eng, our chances are surely
>  > > > > better.
>  > > > > 
>  > > > I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
>  > > > documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept
>  > > > behind freeing room on the DVD to include these two? 
>  > > 
>  > > What we need is not end-user documentation for revisor (revisor
>  > > is the tool of choice for most users) but *official*
>  > > documentation on pungi, the tool used by Fedora release
>  > > engineering to create the official media.
>  > > 
>  > > The best document I could find is
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Composing_test_images
>  > > It should be sufficient to to a compose, but it requires
>  > > privileges that only members of rel-eng have.
>  > 
>  > Understood. So what you're saying is that I would not be able to
>  > help with this because it requires privileges I don't have? 
>  
>  That none of us has. ;) Kevin perhaps?
>  
>  > If that is the case I would like to help with anything that I can. 
>  
>  I think we should focus on user documentation. Having a real good doc
>  in time for F15 would be awesome.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
Thanks : ) I just read over the document you linked me to, and I will
focus on F15 documentation, I've been going between Rawhide
documentation (what is available) and Xfce 4.8's release
information trying to compile what I can. If you have links that I may
not have please feel free to send them my way ; )

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:01:53 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 15:19 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:14:50 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:51 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  > > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
>  > > > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > > > 
>  > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > > > > > 
>  > > > > > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least
>  > > > > > in f14, the image was smaller than it had been in the
>  > > > > > past). They might have added things in at the last minute
>  > > > > > tho. ;( 
>  > > > > 
>  > > > > Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have
>  > > > > Xfce and LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  > > [...]
>  > > > > ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my
>  > > > > own DVD. I did not have the time and the necessary
>  > > > > documentation, but if someone is willing to do this and we
>  > > > > have something to show to rel-eng, our chances are surely
>  > > > > better.
>  > > > > 
>  > > > I would be happy to help with documentation. Would I provide
>  > > > documentation for Xfce/Lxde themselves or the whole concept
>  > > > behind freeing room on the DVD to include these two? 
>  > > 
>  > > What we need is not end-user documentation for revisor (revisor
>  > > is the tool of choice for most users) but *official*
>  > > documentation on pungi, the tool used by Fedora release
>  > > engineering to create the official media.
>  > > 
>  > > The best document I could find is
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Composing_test_images
>  > > It should be sufficient to to a compose, but it requires
>  > > privileges that only members of rel-eng have.
>  > 
>  > Understood. So what you're saying is that I would not be able to
>  > help with this because it requires privileges I don't have? 
>  
>  That none of us has. ;) Kevin perhaps?
>  
>  > If that is the case I would like to help with anything that I can. 
>  
>  I think we should focus on user documentation. Having a real good doc
>  in time for F15 would be awesome.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
I am going to get started on F15 documentation tomorrow. Anywhere in
particular to start, and what needs documenting for Xfce?

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:01:53 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  That none of us has. ;) Kevin perhaps? 
Well, looking at that doc, its specific to the fedora compose env, but
should work with some mods anywhere. 

spins-kickstarts you can clone from git. 
I suppose the fedora-devel-compose* mock config is needed.
Upload would of course require rel-eng. 

The mock configs are just rawhide/devel ones with: 
--cut--
config_opts['root'] = 'fedora-development-compose-i386'
config_opts['target_arch'] = 'i386'
config_opts['chroot_setup_cmd'] = 'install @buildsys-build vim-enhanced
pungi'
config_opts['dist'] = 'fc15'
config_opts['plugin_conf']['root_cache_enable'] = False
config_opts['internal_dev_setup'] = False
config_opts['plugin_conf']['bind_mount_opts']['dirs'].append(('/srv/pungi',
'/srv/pungi' ))
config_opts['plugin_conf']['bind_mount_opts']['dirs'].append(('/dev',
'/dev' ))
config_opts['plugin_conf']['bind_mount_opts']['dirs'].append(('/dev/pts',
'/dev/pts' ))
--cut--

and the normal rawhide repos enabled. 

Does that get you to where you can test? 

kevin

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Brock Hudson]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:18:47 +0100
Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 09:35 -0700 schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
>  > On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:34:23 +0100
>  > Christoph Wickert <christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  > 
>  > > BTW: This is something we want to change for F15. We just need to
>  > > come up with a few suggestions to free space on the DVD in order
>  > > to convince release engineering.
>  > > 
>  > > Suggestions:
>  > >       * eclipse-pde (82,1 MB)
>  > >       * scribus and scribus-doc (21,4 MB)
>  > >       * gnome-games-help (18,1 MB)
>  > >       * evolution-help (16,7 MB)
>  > > 
>  > > To me eclipse-pde looks most promising: It's not required for
>  > > eclipse and it's plugins but only for developing *new*
>  > > eclipse-plugins. If we remove scribus we will have to mess the
>  > > design-team and for the help packages with the GNOME desktop
>  > > folks. ;)
>  > > 
>  > > Removing eclipse-pde will free enough space to include both Xfce
>  > > and LXDE and more, say Moblin/Megoo or Sugar.
>  > 
>  > I thought there was already free room on the dvd. (At least in f14,
>  > the image was smaller than it had been in the past). They might
>  > have added things in at the last minute tho. ;( 
>  
>  Hmm, I didn't know that. The last time I suggested to have Xfce and
>  LXDE on the DVD I was shot down and told...
>  
>  > I did mention the idea of adding Xfce/LXDE to the dvd in the last
>  > rel-eng meeting and was not immediately shouted down, so thats good.
>  > Would you like me to take these above suggestions to them?
>  
>  ... that I should do a proof of concept, so I should spin my own DVD.
>  I did not have the time and the necessary documentation, but if
>  someone is willing to do this and we have something to show to
>  rel-eng, our chances are surely better.
>  
>  Regards,
>  Christoph
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  xfce mailing list
>  xfce(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce 
Speaking of Re-spinning media, I know this may be a question for the
forums, but revisor can't find anaconda and won't start in Xfce. I see
the anaconda file it's looking for in the directory but revisor
doesn't. Anyone encounter this?

Xfce on the installation DVD (was Re: Regarding XFCE wiki page)

[Christoph Wickert]

Am Mittwoch, den 19.01.2011, 14:57 -0500 schrieb Brock Hudson:
>  
>  Speaking of Re-spinning media, I know this may be a question for the
>  forums, but revisor can't find anaconda and won't start in Xfce. I see
>  the anaconda file it's looking for in the directory but revisor
>  doesn't. Anyone encounter this? 
Yes, that's https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=653209

Regards,
Christoph