[Bug 609476] New: Please use Katakana to translate "file" in the elfutis package.

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Summary: Please use Katakana to translate "file" in the elfutis package.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

Summary: Please use Katakana to translate "file" in the elfutis
                    package.
           Product: Fedora Localization
           Version: unspecified
          Platform: All
        OS/Version: Linux
            Status: NEW
          Severity: low
          Priority: low
         Component: Japanese [ja]
        AssignedTo: [e-mail]
        ReportedBy: [e-mail]
         QAContact: [e-mail]
                CC: [e-mail]
   Estimated Hours: 0.0
    Classification: Fedora

Description of problem:
"file" is translated to "ふぁいる" instead of "ファイル" in some help options.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
elfutils-0.148-1.fc13

How reproducible:
run elfutils command with "--help" option.

Steps to Reproduce:
1.eu-addr2line --help

1.eu-findtextrel --help

1.eu-nm --help

1.eu-objdump --help

1.eu-readelf --help

1.eu-size --help

1.eu-strings --help

1.eu-unstrip --help

Actual results:
"file" is translated to "ふぁいる"

Expected results:
"file" is translated to "ファイル"

Additional info:
These are actual results.

/usr/bin/eu-addr2line ng
-e, --executable=ふぁいる   ふぁいる 中のアドレスを探す
-M, --linux-process-map=ふぁいる

/usr/bin/eu-findtextrel 
Usage: eu-findtextrel [OPTION...] [ふぁいる...]

/usr/bin/eu-nm 
Usage: eu-nm [OPTION...] [ふぁいる...]

/usr/bin/eu-objdump ng
Usage: eu-objdump [OPTION...] [ふぁいる...]

/usr/bin/eu-readelf
Usage: eu-readelf [OPTION...] ふぁいる...

/usr/bin/eu-size 
Usage: eu-size [OPTION...] [ふぁいる...]

/usr/bin/eu-strings
Usage: eu-strings [OPTION...] [ふぁいる...]

/usr/bin/eu-strip
  -f ふぁいる            抽出した取り除いたセクションを
                             ふぁいる に置く
  -F ふぁいる            -f パラメーターの代わりに 名前
                             ふぁいる を有効にする

/usr/bin/eu-unstrip 
-e, --executable=ふぁいる  -M, --linux-process-map=ふぁいる
                             Linux の /proc/PID/maps 形式の ふぁいる   ふぁいる 中のアドレスを探す

[Bug 609476] Please use Katakana to translate "file" in the elfutis package.

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

--- Comment #1 from Noriko Mizumoto  2010-06-30 21:31:14 EDT ---
This package name is: elfutils
Package description: 'A collection of utilities and DSOs to handle compiled
objects'
Translatable file (PO):
'https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/p/elfutils/c/master/'

'file' is translated as 'ファイル' in Katakana.
However, 'FILE' is translated as 'ふぁいる' in Hiragana.

I see that Hiragana does not make sense but not sure that this can be replaced
with Katakana, rather it seems safer to me leaving as 'FILE' in English.

For example,
msgid: Find addresses in FILE
msgstr: ふぁいる 中のアドレスを探す

The program looks for addresses in FILE. If 'FILE' is translated, can the
program still find addresses in file? Any idea?

[Bug 609476] Please use Katakana to translate "file" in the elfutis package.

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

--- Comment #2 from [e-mail] 2010-07-01 09:01:59 EDT ---
Thank you for explained it. 
I got it that Japanese doesn't have upper and lower case latter. so it's quiet
difficult to translate.
However, should "FILE" be translated? In the po file, "[fF]ile" and "FILE" are
different use. IMPOV it's necessary to translate "[fF]ile" as "ファイル" to make
sentence natural. I think use "FILE" instead of translated word can be OK,
because it's still the sentence natural.

Cheers,

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

Noriko Mizumoto  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Please use Katakana to      |[elfutils] Translation for
                   |translate "file" in the     |the string 'FILE'
                   |elfutis package.            |
               Flag|                            |needinfo?([e-mail]
                   |                            |)

--- Comment #3 from Noriko Mizumoto  2010-07-01 22:48:41 EDT ---
Hi Roland

It seems that you are the owner of 'elfutils', and would like to ask for help.
Does 'FILE' (upper case) need to be treated as special, separate from usual
'file'?

Description of problem:
There are two types of 'file' and 'FILE' in elfutils. Translator is unable to
determine whether those two to be translated with same one term or those to be
differentiate with two separate terms.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
elfutils-0.148-1.fc13

How reproducible:
run elfutils command with "--help" option.

Translatable file (PO):
'https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/p/elfutils/c/master/'

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

Noriko Mizumoto  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
               Flag|                            |needinfo?([e-mail]
                   |                            |)

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

Roland McGrath  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]
               Flag|needinfo?([e-mail] |
                   |),                          |
                   |needinfo?([e-mail] |
                   |)                           |

--- Comment #4 from Roland McGrath  2010-07-02 14:34:22 EDT ---
I can't tell you how to translate.  In those usage messages, as is the normal
convention for usage messages, there are words in all caps like FILE or SECTION
that represent an argument to the command, where the actual argument is some
particular file name the user chooses, etc.  The uses with normal
capitalization (such as "file" in all lower-case) are normal English uses of
the word in an English phrase such as "Print name of the input file".  So the
latter is to be translated however that English sentence (or sentence fragment)
is ordinarily translated.  The former is to be translated in whatever is the
normal convention for displaying what we call "metasyntactic variables", i.e.
an identifier that stands in for some arbitrary piece of user input.

There is nothing special to elfutils about this.  Using all-caps words in this
way is the normal convention used in all --help messages throughout the system,
and many other places too.  So your translation team should have a
well-established convention for how to represent this in your language.

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

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--- Comment #5 from Noriko Mizumoto  2010-07-06 22:46:14 EDT ---
Thanks Roland,
Understood how all caps words work in help messages.

AFAIK, there is no established convention for those or generally known way
either in Japanese. It seems to me that the way we can go would be either to
translate into exact same style of normal capitalization (Katakana) or to leave
them as is in English as masami256 suggested.
Unless an better approach is suggested, I would go with latter of leaving in
English.

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

Roland McGrath  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |CLOSED
         Resolution|                            |NOTABUG

--- Comment #6 from Roland McGrath  2010-07-07 00:00:32 EDT ---
There are many uses of all-caps names for arguments and the like in help
strings of many packages.  It is certainly the convention for such uses in all
GNU programs.  I'd certainly say this is something that each translation team
should have an official convention for, or at least a FAQ entry of some kind. 
But that is up to the translation teams to figure out, and for the translation
project's administrators to encourage teams to do.

[Bug 609476] [elfutils] Translation for the string 'FILE'

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=609476

--- Comment #7 from Roland McGrath  2010-07-07 00:01:24 EDT ---
Oh, sorry, just realized this was not for my component and I shouldn't have
closed it.  Please reopen or whatever is appropriate.