Arabic Translation Team

[Sherif Abdelgawad]

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I just want to recap and clear all the heat in
the previous emails, hoping to reach a point 
where everyone cool down and reach a working
environment.

Current Status:

- - Most of the Arabic translation almost done.
- - Arabeyes team to take credit for the translaiton.
- - New team from KCAST want to join.
- - Individuals from other Arabic LUGs want to join
- - Fedora Team still working on setting up team pages,
  current system allow maintainers for modules, and
  or large scale maintainer for certain lang. I belive
  the system should fit fine, yet it is open
  for suggesstion and request enhancement as needed.

I personally agree with what Alan mentioned that 
most of the translation teams usually appear when
all the work are done. I can see valid request from
Arabeyes to have maintainership on the arabic
translation. Also I can see the concerns which
the other groups have against arabeyes, and the
fear of control and forcing policies from 
Arabeyes, requesting to be part of arabeyes
or you can not contribute. Some ppl do not want to be 
part of Arabeyes yet they would like to contribute.

I would like to recommend something to solve
all this. No one can deny the effort done by
Arabeyes and it would be unfair not to grant
them the maintainer. Yet, I hope that feedback
from others and suggestion would be faced
by difficult attitude from Arabeyes. This
is one of the main issue I saw personally.

Quoting from Mohamed Elzubeir:

>  - You have certain issues with the way Arabeyes handles 
>    things (so far Arabeyes officially has not done anything, 
>    so I'm not  sure what you are referring to -- but if 
>    you do have such  issues, we would be happy
>    to hear constructive criticism on the 'general' list). 
That would not be only me. Munzir & Mohammed Desoky requested
more open and flexible attitude from Arabeyes. Not only
referring to what is currently Arabeyes doing on Fedora,
but overall as a policy. For example the attitude 
when discussing things, starting aggressively  defending,
sarcasm tone, ...etc. Not only what happened here
while discussing, but also from the link Munzir
pasted, it seems the default way to handle issues.

I think it worth listening and considering :)

After all we all are interested in Arabic being properly
supported and translated. It is good to have larger
group regardless if they want to work under Arabeyes
or outside. I hope you agree with me on this. 

So I would like to ask the other arabic groups
to team up with arabeyes, and work up something
which satisfy everyone, and get the work done. 

I belive we will need to review & QA the work
done already plus finishing up the last big file which
is not yet done.

Munzir, Mohamed Deskoy, Arabeyes & Other indiveduals
any suggestion on how to move from this point forward? 

Just keep in mind two things Arabeyes is well established
group who I belive should maintain. Yet, a littel
bit of change of how things handled and allow 
more freedome to others groups need to be clear
and granted from Arabeyes. Afterall we all working
on one target.

Any comments?

Thanks 

Sherif

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[Muhammad Alkarouri]

As is becoming the trend in this thread, I have to start with the
disclaimers, though I think it is well established that anybody speaks
for himself/herself in this list.
I am a member of Arabeyes but I am not representing their view here. Nor
am I representing Munzir who speaks for himself now, though he is a
close friend of mine. A double disclaimer for the fact that I am a RHCE,
for being one does not make me Red Hat affiliated, and being Red Hat
affiliated would not have made be a Red Hat speaker here, as everybody
is aware.

On Mon, 2004-06-28 at 08:40, Sherif Abdelgawad wrote:
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>  
>  
>  I just want to recap and clear all the heat in
>  the previous emails, hoping to reach a point 
>  where everyone cool down and reach a working
>  environment. 
I think everybody now wants to cool down. So thanks for that.
By the way, Sherif, as you are subscribing to the doc mailing list as
arabeyes, it is not fair to receive e-mails there and reply to them
here, as they describe their owner's opinion, not that of arabeyes, and
they shouldn't be as such.
That being said, I believe it is an unintended error from you, as you
replied to all people rather than to the doc list.

>  
>  Current Status:
>  
>  - - Most of the Arabic translation almost done.
>  - - Arabeyes team to take credit for the translaiton.
>  - - New team from KCAST want to join.
>  - - Individuals from other Arabic LUGs want to join
>  - - Fedora Team still working on setting up team pages,
>    current system allow maintainers for modules, and
>    or large scale maintainer for certain lang. I belive
>    the system should fit fine, yet it is open
>    for suggesstion and request enhancement as needed.
>   
I would replace point 2 by 'Arabeyes team to take
maintainership/coordination for the translation', for I believe it is
more important for them to have maintainership to maintain a certain
quality of translation than to get credits, which naturally belongs to
them if they do the translation as to any other translators.
Otherwise, I find your status summary fairly good.

[...]
>  I would like to recommend something to solve
>  all this. No one can deny the effort done by
>  Arabeyes and it would be unfair not to grant
>  them the maintainer. Yet, I hope that feedback
>  from others and suggestion would be faced
>  by difficult attitude from Arabeyes. This
>  is one of the main issue I saw personally. 
I hope you will be able to give some concrete recommendation. This also
goes to Munzir and Mohammed Eldesoky. I would prefer that you carry on
this discussion in the doc list in arabeyes (the things related to
arabic) while still giving general suggestions to fedora-trans-list if
they are beneficial to the fedora translation project, for example a
general view for teamwork in fedora.

This does not mean your being members in Arabeyes, and I believe it will
help arabeyes as well as you to keep a healthy cooperation. After all ..
>  After all we all are interested in Arabic being properly
>  supported and translated. It is good to have larger
>  group regardless if they want to work under Arabeyes
>  or outside. I hope you agree with me on this.  
The thing is that we want to push this work on. So I expect suggestions,
given everything said here, to be on the line:
- Arabeyes to be maintainer
- I am not sure if you are aware that Arabeyes usually works on its own
cvs then merges with the main cvs frequently, to double check. Their
maintainer (in this case Youcef) is the only one who does the merging.
That means, effectively, that they will take all the modules and
distribute them among their available team. In your suggestions, please
consider: if you need accounts on Arabeyes cvs, or if we are to somehow
partition cvs access.

>  Just keep in mind two things Arabeyes is well established
>  group who I belive should maintain. Yet, a littel
>  bit of change of how things handled and allow 
>  more freedome to others groups need to be clear
>  and granted from Arabeyes. Afterall we all working
>  on one target.
>  
>  Any comments?
>  
>  Thanks 
>  
>  Sherif
>   
On an off topic note, Sherif, please e-mail us when resala linux is
ready. I am sure it will be interesting to a lot of us there.

Regards,
Muhammad Alkarouri

========
"Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."

[Sherif Abdelgawad]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Muhammad Alkarouri wrote:

>  I think everybody now wants to cool down. So thanks for that.
>  By the way, Sherif, as you are subscribing to the doc mailing list as
>  arabeyes, it is not fair to receive e-mails there and reply to them
>  here, as they describe their owner's opinion, not that of arabeyes, and
>  they shouldn't be as such. 
This was the first msg I got from arabeyes. Did not notice 
it was arabeyes mailing list only. My mistake then.

>  That being said, I believe it is an unintended error from you, as
> you
>  replied to all people rather than to the doc list. 

Yes, sorry for that.

Thanks

Sherif