Heya!
Short summary: Discussing before switching the translation system of some guides.
After spending many hours in the merge issue between our old teams and the transifex.net ones, it is still an active task. Thanks to involved contributors, it is moving forward, there are already some projects fully merged.
Willing to help with the IQSG (installation quick start guide), I noticed an issue in the transifex config[1], which leads me to a zanata config file and the corresponding git commits.
A bit of history. A while back, we were using our own Transifex instance, which was not sticking to the upstream releases. It was a mess with projects unavailable and other issues.
There were 2 solutions: - Migrating to transifex.net, the online hosted service maintained by the Transifex team, - Moving to an other system (in our infra or somewhere else).
Some wanted to try Zanata. There where a RH instance set for this purpose[2]. After many discussions, it has been decided to move all our projects to transifex.net.
Few upstream projects choose for specific reasons to move to an other service, and even to Zanata (1 or 2). And few others just stops dealing with translations. Yes, changing the translation platform is a pain for both, maintainers and translators.
Nowadays, we are close to have fully integrated all projects to transifex.net (still some merge concerning docs[3]).
So here we are, with translations done through transifex.net for the projects correctly set up, the other one needs attention ([4]?).
/end of history
The IQSG is not correctly set up. But we just saw on the git log "* fb03c3c Adding zanata config file" this is… weird without other notice.
On the Zanata instance, we could see: Description Creation Date Status Fedora Installation Quick Start Guide 19 juin 2012 Active Fedora Installation Guide 19 juin 2012 Active
I just asked more info on IRC, and it appears that we need to discuss/define how we deal with our translation platform, and let our maintainers explain why they need to move somewhere else.
nb has reverted the ZANATA commits in the above guides, to avoid mistakes. @maintainers, could you please explain your needs/wishes?
Cheers,
[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=836383 [2] https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/ [3] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-June/014356.html [4] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-June/014420.html
Hi all!
I just want to summarize my reasons to NOT translate documentation:
1. Translations does not appear automaticaly. Publishing process is slow and not easy. 2. The documentation is old. It's too hard to be different in a six month cycle, I think. 3. Both zanata and launchpad translation projects have more convenient and functional UI than transifex.
Regards! Valentin Laskov Bulgarian translation team
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Valentin Laskov laskov@festa.bg wrote:
Hi all!
I just want to summarize my reasons to NOT translate documentation:
- Translations does not appear automaticaly. Publishing process is slow
and not easy. 2. The documentation is old. It's too hard to be different in a six month cycle, I think. 3. Both zanata and launchpad translation projects have more convenient and functional UI than transifex.
As for 3, I think you have to write the details down to convince others.
Regards! Valentin Laskov Bulgarian translation team -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
I don't know zanata. How it works?
El sáb, 30-06-2012 a las 02:13 +0800, Cheng-Chia Tseng escribió:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Valentin Laskov laskov@festa.bg wrote:
Hi all! I just want to summarize my reasons to NOT translate documentation: 1. Translations does not appear automaticaly. Publishing process is slow and not easy. 2. The documentation is old. It's too hard to be different in a six month cycle, I think. 3. Both zanata and launchpad translation projects have more convenient and functional UI than transifex.As for 3, I think you have to write the details down to convince others.
Regards! Valentin Laskov Bulgarian translation team -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Sincerely, by Cheng-Chia Tseng
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
написане Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:06:28 +0300, Lailah lailahfsf@gmail.com:
I don't know zanata. How it works?
http://seanf.github.com/zanata-docs/Zanata_Quickstart_Guide/html/index.html
// For me, Zanata is no go as it lacks any support of offline translation.
El sáb, 30-06-2012 a las 02:13 +0800, Cheng-Chia Tseng escribió:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Valentin Laskov laskov@festa.bg wrote:
Hi all! I just want to summarize my reasons to NOT translate documentation: 1. Translations does not appear automaticaly. Publishing process is slow and not easy. 2. The documentation is old. It's too hard to be different in a six month cycle, I think. 3. Both zanata and launchpad translation projects have more convenient and functional UI than transifex.As for 3, I think you have to write the details down to convince others.
Regards! Valentin Laskov Bulgarian translation team -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans-- Sincerely, by Cheng-Chia Tseng
-- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
Hi Kévin,
Thanks for tackling the Installation Quick Start Guide, and I'm sorry you encountered those pitfalls.
I just want to clarify why a Zanata config file was checked into git, and by extension why we've decided to move the Installation Guide and Installation Quick Start Guide from Transifex to Zanata.
As I explained in another trans-list thread, the mechanical reasons are:
1) Transifex can't handle the long filenames that the sheer size of the Install Guide necessitates, so we have to maintain some kind of mapping between the filename and the Transifex module names. This requires a massive amount of manual handling. 2) Pushing and pulling the 800 small files that comprise the Install Guide across the 20+ languages that we have partial translations for is prohibitive as the connection keeps failing.
More importantly, I want to emphasise that moving to Zanata in this case is purely a solution to the difficulties Transifex has with these particular guides. It is not reflective of a broader desire to migrate to Zanata. I appreciate the myriad reasons why it is best to have all Fedora localization work done under one roof.
If and when these technical hurdles are overcome, Transifex would naturally be the ideal home for these guides so that all our work is consolidated.
Apologies for the confusion that has resulted from this.
Cheers,
Jack
On 06/29/2012 08:52 AM, Kévin Raymond wrote:
Heya!
Short summary: Discussing before switching the translation system of some guides.
After spending many hours in the merge issue between our old teams and the transifex.net ones, it is still an active task. Thanks to involved contributors, it is moving forward, there are already some projects fully merged.
Willing to help with the IQSG (installation quick start guide), I noticed an issue in the transifex config[1], which leads me to a zanata config file and the corresponding git commits.
A bit of history. A while back, we were using our own Transifex instance, which was not sticking to the upstream releases. It was a mess with projects unavailable and other issues.
There were 2 solutions:
- Migrating to transifex.net, the online hosted service maintained by the
Transifex team,
- Moving to an other system (in our infra or somewhere else).
Some wanted to try Zanata. There where a RH instance set for this purpose[2]. After many discussions, it has been decided to move all our projects to transifex.net.
Few upstream projects choose for specific reasons to move to an other service, and even to Zanata (1 or 2). And few others just stops dealing with translations. Yes, changing the translation platform is a pain for both, maintainers and translators.
Nowadays, we are close to have fully integrated all projects to transifex.net (still some merge concerning docs[3]).
So here we are, with translations done through transifex.net for the projects correctly set up, the other one needs attention ([4]?).
/end of history
The IQSG is not correctly set up. But we just saw on the git log "* fb03c3c Adding zanata config file" this is… weird without other notice.
On the Zanata instance, we could see: Description Creation Date Status Fedora Installation Quick Start Guide 19 juin 2012 Active Fedora Installation Guide 19 juin 2012 Active
I just asked more info on IRC, and it appears that we need to discuss/define how we deal with our translation platform, and let our maintainers explain why they need to move somewhere else.
nb has reverted the ZANATA commits in the above guides, to avoid mistakes. @maintainers, could you please explain your needs/wishes?
Cheers,
[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=836383 [2] https://translate.zanata.org/zanata/ [3] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-June/014356.html [4] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/docs/2012-June/014420.html
Some question,
Why can't we fix the bugs in Transifex?
Maybe we will kick transifex away later?
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Jack Reed jreed@redhat.com wrote:
- Transifex can't handle the long filenames that the sheer size of the
Install Guide necessitates, so we have to maintain some kind of mapping between the filename and the Transifex module names. This requires a massive amount of manual handling.
Jack, thank you for reporting this. Can you please provide an example to see where this fails? The best place would be the Transifex Client issue tracker:
https://github.com/transifex/transifex-client/issues
Since this is a one-off job, it can be automated with a bash/python for loop..
def uniquify(new_item, item_list): for i in range(0,100): # add a number at end, find unique name = name + i if name in names: continue return name
names = [] for potfile in potfiles: name = potfile[0:40] # first 40 chars if name in resources: # if we have the same.. name = uniquify(name) names.append(name)
- Pushing and pulling the 800 small files that comprise the Install Guide
across the 20+ languages that we have partial translations for is prohibitive as the connection keeps failing.
The client supports caching, and I don't think this should be causing issues. It sounds like something which needs to be improved though, so could you please open an issue so that the development will know and work on it?
-d
-
Cheng-Chia Tseng -
Christopher Meng -
Dimitris Glezos -
Jack Reed -
Kévin Raymond -
Sylvia Sánchez -
Valentin Laskov -
Yuri Chornoivan